speed v damage

[Lasod]

in the beginning as designed there are 3 categories of weapons

fast with low damage
medium speed with medium damage
slow with high damage

with attachments and pups and food able to make everyone speed capped thus making weapon speed a non factor

as a weaponsmith is there any value in making anything other than rifles or two handed except for grind weapons?

[Lasod]

thank you for participating in the conversation

[saboteur]

Fast high damage flamethrower and LLCs

This would be the only exception that I can think of.

[QuorTek]

It would be nice if having a choice when slicing though instead of it being random.

It could be like:
Damage slice = you get any damage slice from 20% to 35% random
Speed Slice = you get any speed slice from 20% to 35%

or nail it down to below here:
Speed + Damage = you get the best from both worlds or just do so it enhance both stats with up to 35% with both values naturally being random from 20% to 35%.

[Acroyear]

It would be nice if having a choice when slicing though instead of it being random.

It could be like:
Damage slice = you get any damage slice from 20% to 35% random
Speed Slice = you get any speed slice from 20% to 35%

or nail it down to below here:
Speed + Damage = you get the best from both worlds or just do so it enhance both stats with up to 35% with both values naturally being random from 20% to 35%.

Oh, my. That's a controversial position to take, Velve. I get where you're coming from, and moreover I think *anyone* would see the advantages of what you are suggesting. And frankly it is tempting to consider.

But... is it still SWG at that point? To question it further, is it true to the Awakening-As-Hard-Mode vision of the server?

I'll state plainly here, as I have in Neutral chat along with Neoki, that Power Hammers and T21s are unattractive to craft because the demand is almost exclusively for damage sliced examples of those items. That means roughly 50% of your work on them, regardless of how good your resources are, are essentially junk (the very top speed sliced ones will sell - eventually - and the lower damage sliced examples will not sell at all, so I'll stand by an estimate of 50% waste). And if you introduce the expense and rarity of the materials for enhanced versions of these weapons, the risk of getting a speed slice and loosing millions of credits is deeply unappealing to those of us with limited financial resources.

Being able to select the type of slice would be extremely attractive and make crafting those weapons easier to justify.

But is it still SWG if we alter that game mechanic?

- A.

[Acroyear]

Another point to consider.

If we make this change to slicing, it would go hand in hand that a Smuggler would be able to choose encumbrance vs. base effectiveness slices for armor, too.

[Neoki]

As much as I would LOVE this, can never see Ed signing off on this as it would gear the slicing mechanic to post NGE rather than pre-cu.

[QuorTek]

As much as I would LOVE this, can never see Ed signing off on this as it would gear the slicing mechanic to post NGE rather than pre-cu.

No slicing in the NGE, but there was done something about it in the CU where you had to acquire special items for slicing at all through looting.

I just posted the suggestion as the slicing system is really not 50% but more like total RNG.... you could build like 10 weapons and get 9 speed slices and 1 damage slice and vice versa.

Saying that some weapons are not liked or whichever such as the T21or Tenloss, them people has never fired a good one before though, in a way current system make it rather more difficult for ranged weapons as they in general for the better ones need 4 to10 special looted items for a crazy craft, this is starwars yes/no?

Starwars is for the most part focused more on pew pew pew rather than smacking an alien or creature in the face with a powerhammer, it is just some thoughts to take into consideration. =)

[Acroyear]

I just posted the suggestion as the slicing system is really not 50% but more like total RNG.... you could build like 10 weapons and get 9 speed slices and 1 damage slice and vice versa.

Saying that some weapons are not liked or whichever such as the T21or Tenloss, them people has never fired a good one before though, in a way current system make it rather more difficult for ranged weapons as they in general for the better ones need 4 to10 special looted items for a crazy craft, this is starwars yes/no?

Starwars is for the most part focused more on pew pew pew rather than smacking an alien or creature in the face with a powerhammer, it is just some thoughts to take into consideration. =)

Q, I think something of what I wrote must have been misunderstood by you. I wasn't suggesting that the T21 or other weapons are not liked. I was saying that they're unattractive to craft because only the top damage slices sell.

And yes, slicing is random, but that random chance breaks down to a 50/50 chance of speed vs. damage, and then a 1 in 15 chance of getting a value between 20% to 35%. Can that result in 9 speed slices and 1 damage slice? Sure. I'll stand by the notion, though, that on the average, about 50% of your slices would be waste. But this is all secondary to the topic you raised of potentially implementing control over speed vs. damage slicing.

The question remains, IMO, that if we were to remove that 50/50 split chance at the onset, are we altering one of the fundamental mechanics of SWG? Wouldn't other servers who don't implement that option be justified in accusing us of having it easier as WS/Smugglers than the rest of the servers do?

It would make my life easier, and generally reduce waste across the server, were we able to select the type of slice we want. I can't say that I'm in favor of it though, it is too big of a change from the original pre-CU mechanics for me. I may gripe, kvetch, and grouse as I struggle with this particular system (I blame my father for teaching me through example that cursing like you mean it was part of working on... well, just about anything now that I think of it), but I'm not going to ask for easy mode, either. That would feel a bit too much like cheating.

- A.

[QuorTek]

I just posted the suggestion as the slicing system is really not 50% but more like total RNG.... you could build like 10 weapons and get 9 speed slices and 1 damage slice and vice versa.

Saying that some weapons are not liked or whichever such as the T21or Tenloss, them people has never fired a good one before though, in a way current system make it rather more difficult for ranged weapons as they in general for the better ones need 4 to10 special looted items for a crazy craft, this is starwars yes/no?

Starwars is for the most part focused more on pew pew pew rather than smacking an alien or creature in the face with a powerhammer, it is just some thoughts to take into consideration. =)

Q, I think something of what I wrote must have been misunderstood by you. I wasn't suggesting that the T21 or other weapons are not liked. I was saying that they're unattractive to craft because only the top damage slices sell.

And yes, slicing is random, but that random chance breaks down to a 50/50 chance of speed vs. damage, and then a 1 in 15 chance of getting a value between 20% to 35%. Can that result in 9 speed slices and 1 damage slice? Sure. I'll stand by the notion, though, that on the average, about 50% of your slices would be waste. But this is all secondary to the topic you raised of potentially implementing control over speed vs. damage slicing.

The question remains, IMO, that if we were to remove that 50/50 split chance at the onset, are we altering one of the fundamental mechanics of SWG? Wouldn't other servers who don't implement that option be justified in accusing us of having it easier as WS/Smugglers than the rest of the servers do?

It would make my life easier, and generally reduce waste across the server, were we able to select the type of slice we want. I can't say that I'm in favor of it though, it is too big of a change from the original pre-CU mechanics for me. I may gripe, kvetch, and grouse as I struggle with this particular system (I blame my father for teaching me through example that cursing like you mean it was part of working on... well, just about anything now that I think of it), but I'm not going to ask for easy mode, either. That would feel a bit too much like cheating.

- A.

Innkap, I could be worth a shot for items requiring more than 3 powerhandlers ( 4 tissues and above ) to make those weapons more attractive and actually have more of this and that profession running around or have a do over slice or the likes for more complex components, I can live with the system we got now though it is fine really but it feels like lack of innovation or underdeveloped from the base SOE way, from something missed out on from the game in live, heck inflation on weapons in that require a lot of gamble is hitting the roof as for one thing and basically only leave a fraction of very wealthy players ever being able to buy any of them instead of just veteran players that is semi well off.

Will we ever see a T21 with 750+ max damage and unpupped that has not been looted vs for an instance a power hammer even though the drop rate is not perfect for acklay bones?

[Neoki]

Q-Tek, not saying I don't like your idea, in fact, I love it. And ya I think I got the CU slicing mixed up. I remember a time in live SWG where you could select what kind of slice you wanted? I think anyways? Maybe my memory is fuzzy, either way I would love this system, like you said, maybe add additional or more expensive materials but in turn allow the weapon to be fully and further specialized to what you intended.

+1

[QuorTek]

No problem guys and gals, no one is perfect and I fall into that black hole as well from time to time, as I look upon EMU-PRE-CU is that the goal is to create a game as we knew it and then perfect it from that standpoint, else it is just an attempt to create something unfinished as SOE did in the first place and the devs on awakening is or seem well aware about that as we have some tweaks in this or that direction that is way different from live or semi different in a good way.

[Lasod]

this topic went in a different direction i was thinking about when i posted the op

interesting

[Neoki]

Hey at least it's an active weaponsmith only discussion

[Orad]

I know this is an old thread.. 4 months old anyway.

Personally I would think a change like this would be bad for WS and Smuggler toons and good for loot/combat toons. It would lower the value of damage sliced weapons and it would decrease the amount of business Smugglers get because it would take half the attempts to get that perfect damage slice. At the same time it would drive up the value of the looted pieces of the weapons. That super high damage set of tissues or bones would have no chance of getting a speed slice.. so the amounts the looters would get for camping these spawns would increase exponentially.

So if you think about it instead of "wasting" millions of credits on those tissues you instead would just get charged more for the same tissues. At least the way things are when you get a speed slice on a really nice T21 you still have a very fast higher than base damage weapon that you can sell to riflemen who are grinding to recoup some of your investment (When I would grind toons on live I always used enhanced speed sliced weapons)

[uh60rider]

Keep in mind that being able to choose between dmg/spd would present the possibility of saturating the market and devaluing your wares. Just a thought...