Pikeman: The Forgotten Brawler

[Sakuria]

Hi

I'm a career pikeman, I played pikeman on live and i am doing so again, i played swordsman for a week and, well, it's just not pikeman. I'd love to see a tweak to bring it into line with other combat professions. This is not a new request as you can see here http://www.swgemu.com/archive/scrapbook ... 127184426/.

After some thought i'd like to suggest one of those changes listed in the a fore mentioned post, Heavy armor pen. more specifically, heavy AP on LVA and Nightsister Energy lance, as well as upping Vibrolance to Medium.

So, reasoning time.

Lets start with in game description "The hardest hitting melee profession," nope, that's Swordsman.
Physics : Bigger stick = more Torque = Larger force of impact

If we look at the other profs as well;
TKA is tougher and better single target state control also most versatile attacks with respect to damage pools - in a good place
Swordsman is pretty tough and has excellent damage, less control than TKA but in a very good place (300-900 Power hammers hitting mind anybody)
Fencer needs work for PvE but for PvP with the stun damage it's pretty good, also dodge is better than Block.

Pikemen take the most damage and, i feel, from descriptions should do the most.

In Live the Avaliblity of Dot's made Pikeman PvP viable but they do seen a lot less common on here, can only say this is a good thing, and as a result i feel like there are maybe 3 people playing pikeman on the entire server.

So, i feel that upping the AP would bring Pikeman more into line with it's peers, would fit both the game description and the Real life Physics associated with such a weapon.

Just my "2 cents" but when you love a broken class sometimes you gotta try to help.

[StepoKedur]

I always liked pikeman. Went well with my mSmuggler TKM (parts at least).

[Sakuria]

I always liked pikeman. Went well with my mSmuggler TKM (parts at least).

it's fun pulling 50 mokk's and then putting them all on their asses ;D

[bobaphat]

Would absolutely love a medium AP Vibrolance in the DWB that's for sure. I think just giving Pikeman more weapon options would go a long way. Kin/Elect really being the only options unless you want to spend a ton for a NSEL, that you'll rarely use. Giving Pikeman acid would set it apart from the other melee classes and make it more viable for a lot of things, while not overpowering the class in pvp too much. A medium AP Acid weapon would make Pikeman amazing, maybe 2pro even.

As far as taking damage, Pikeman defense aren't actually that bad they are just so outclassed by the other melee. Fencer defense is OP, Counterattack is brilliant and TKA just overall is better.
Having said that you can make a very strong stacker with Pikeman as the main class but you do have to mix and match to make it work. I have a Pikeman, right now i'm in the middle of changing his template but I used to tank Krayts with him while doing DPS on my jedi, also did the same thing in the DWB.

PvE:
MPikeman/0440 Fencer/0040 Pistols - leaves you with a few options and great defense. Can go MBrawler for Intim 2
MPikeman/0440 Fencer/0040 Pistols/Carbines0020/Medic2030
MPikeman/Doc4030/Pistols0040 -- Could probably wreck in pvp but I haven't used a pikeman in pvp in forever, I prefer ranged

[Dantae]

Would absolutely love a medium AP Vibrolance in the DWB that's for sure.

While that would be amazing the only downside is the crazy range of the AOE's. You might pull a bit too much if you use the wrong attack.

As for defenses, block could have been done right if it blocked attacks hitting other people in your group (within a certain range). I suggested this on live many many years ago. But as usual any of our great ideas got shot down over there.

[bobaphat]

I was thinking more for PolearmHit3, AoE in the DWB is a nooooope.

[Sakuria]

Would absolutely love a medium AP Vibrolance in the DWB that's for sure. I think just giving Pikeman more weapon options would go a long way. Kin/Elect really being the only options unless you want to spend a ton for a NSEL, that you'll rarely use. Giving Pikeman acid would set it apart from the other melee classes and make it more viable for a lot of things, while not overpowering the class in pvp too much. A medium AP Acid weapon would make Pikeman amazing, maybe 2pro even.

As far as taking damage, Pikeman defense aren't actually that bad they are just so outclassed by the other melee. Fencer defense is OP, Counterattack is brilliant and TKA just overall is better.
Having said that you can make a very strong stacker with Pikeman as the main class but you do have to mix and match to make it work. I have a Pikeman, right now i'm in the middle of changing his template but I used to tank Krayts with him while doing DPS on my jedi, also did the same thing in the DWB.

I'm not saying we're bad tanks, but compared to the 3 other options we're far worse. Different Damage types would help as well.

[KushSan]

Would absolutely love a medium AP Vibrolance in the DWB that's for sure. I think just giving Pikeman more weapon options would go a long way. Kin/Elect really being the only options unless you want to spend a ton for a NSEL, that you'll rarely use. Giving Pikeman acid would set it apart from the other melee classes and make it more viable for a lot of things, while not overpowering the class in pvp too much. A medium AP Acid weapon would make Pikeman amazing, maybe 2pro even.

As far as taking damage, Pikeman defense aren't actually that bad they are just so outclassed by the other melee. Fencer defense is OP, Counterattack is brilliant and TKA just overall is better.
Having said that you can make a very strong stacker with Pikeman as the main class but you do have to mix and match to make it work. I have a Pikeman, right now i'm in the middle of changing his template but I used to tank Krayts with him while doing DPS on my jedi, also did the same thing in the DWB.

I'm not saying we're bad tanks, but compared to the 3 other options we're far worse. Different Damage types would help as well.

could say the same for pistol/carbine/rifle, please fix speed!!

[saboteur]

I say strap some PH heads onto a stick and give them blast dmg. They are close to Swordsman for damage ranges and have lower defenses with a lesser secondary defense mod so with would just let you choose between the two builds.

[Sakuria]

I say strap some PH heads onto a stick and give them blast dmg. They are close to Swordsman for damage ranges and have lower defenses with a lesser secondary defense mod so with would just let you choose between the two builds.

I think you've missed the point. A pikeman is not a swordsman, nor should it be!

[saboteur]

I think you've missed the point. A pikeman is not a swordsman, nor should it be!

I still don't think that AP3 will really make that much of a difference when most high end mobs have really high kinetic/electrical damage resistances. The reason Swords hits harder is because its blast dmg.

[Sakuria]

I think you've missed the point. A pikeman is not a swordsman, nor should it be!

I still don't think that AP3 will really make that much of a difference when most high end mobs have really high kinetic/electrical damage resistances. The reason Swords hits harder is because its blast dmg.

AP 3 vs AP 2 will double your damage, but yes vs a 95% ken resist heavy amour target that the difference between 50 and 100 so it's not much and if said mob is 80% to blast then swords still does more damage at 200. But after a mild fire those resistances are 47.5% and 40% at which point then heavy ap kin = 1200 dmg vs medium ap blast = 600

I don't think Pikeman should fill the same space as Swordsman, and giving a pikeman blast damage is just that, while we're at it we might as well just create 4 in game classes in an attempt to balance the game.

Looking at different damage types, pikeman has the most of the melee classes with 3 (kin/elec/energy) but 2 are poor due to light ap (elec/energy) and the other is, as you stated, done in by mobs with high resists. "The hardest hitting melee profession" is more like slapping a Bear with a Trout. Upping to heavy AP keeps the place of Pikeman but just makes it a little more viable. I could say VL and LVA damage needs to go up, a great pike being 600 max and a great hammer being 900 max, yet the pike is the "harder hitting" weapon, but i'm not.

[saboteur]

AP3 vs AP 2 is only a 50% increase in damage not 100%

[Sakuria]

AP3 vs AP 2 is only a 50% increase in damage not 100%

It's entirly dependant on what you're hitting and which direction you go. 50 is 50% of 100. I don't have access to the formula but i used the damage calculator listed in the Swordsman forum

[saboteur]

AP3 vs AP 2 is only a 50% increase in damage not 100%

It's entirly dependant on what you're hitting and which direction you go. 50 is 50% of 100. I don't have access to the formula but i used the damage calculator listed in the Swordsman forum

AP 3 vs AP 2 will double your damage,

AP3 vs AP2 will not double your damage is the point im making. When you hit a Elder who is AR3 with your AP2 PH your damage is reduced 50% and then it takes into account the % of resistance the elder has. Its the same if you hit it with a LVA with AP2 but the reason swords does more damage is % of resistance it has against Kin. If its AP3 vs AR3 it only take into account the % of resistance of the mob. AP3 vs AR 2 will increase your damage 25%, AP3 vs AR 1(Player Armor) will increase the damage 50% if its not vulnerable to that damage type.

[Sakuria]

Oh i realise the blast resist at 80 makes swordsamn do more with both at AP 2. Though what i'm saying is removing that 50% reduction due to AP 2 vs AR 3 will effectivly double the damage. A 100 hit does 5 dmg vs 95% resist with AP3 vs AR3 and 2.5 AP2 vs AR3.

[lassic]

On Bas I ran as Main tank on my Pikeman. MBrawler/MPike/MFencer/TK 4004. I was smashing the GDK, I could tank lots of mobs at once in DWB including the Overlord (Obviously with CM and Docs healing). This build has 171 Melee Def and 144 Range Def. Decent Tertiary Def, and can be taped to have 125 Block, 125 Dodge, and speed capped on Fencer and Pike. I loved it. I even killed the Acklay solo with this build, no heals, Pikkatta pie.. foods, buffs, etc...