Why I Don't PvP

[Lennart]

TLDR version: If PvP isn't fun for someone, they won't do it. If you want to increase the size of the PvP community, you need to broaden its appeal.

I have heard some people saying that PvP in this game needs help. While these are my own experiences, I hope this helps to explain why I don't PvP. In putting this here, I hope it may spark ideas that help those running this server and those who love PvP boost PvP in the game, so that they can have more people to enjoy it with. I'm not saying that changing things will make me more enthusiastic. I present it solely as food for thought.

1. I lack the time to grind. I am a husband, a dad, and I have a job which can eat up a lot of my time. I've never been a fan of grinding in the first place (I hate it), but I'll do it to get the things I need for something I love. But I don't really love PvP, and thus I choose to spend my "grind time" to support other activities in game that I do enjoy. If I were to switch to grinding for PvP, the things I enjoy more would suffer. So there is an opportunity cost in trying to become competitive in PvP.

2. I lose a lot, and few seem willing to teach to correct that. I totally expect to lose at first being new to something. It's no big deal. But it's been my experience time and time again in any game (including SWG when it was live) that few people actually attempt to teach how to PvP as well. This makes no sense to me. If you want lots of good competition, wouldn't you do your best to train those new to it? But that is never the case. Mostly you are thrown to the wolves and expected to sink or swim. Mostly you just sink. That gets rather old and frankly boring. The obvious answer is to join a guild that will teach...but then we get back to #1, and the time associated in contributing to the guild in order to be worthy of the guild's time and being taught.

3. I find the maturity level of far too many PvP'ers that I encounter (please note...*that I encounter*...this does not mean everyone) to be very low. I'm sure this is a case of a minority just being very loud, but the ones who are more mature don't ever seem to speak up. Combined with the above...giving up time spent in game doing things I like more, and then the lack of teaching (which may be related to the lack of maturity), why would I choose to play with people who are not only poor losers on the rare occasions that I might win, but are consistently poor winners when they frequently win? It isn't just here, it is in every game where I've observed PvP. It's one thing to trash an opponent, but afterwards, it might be polite (assuming they were a good sport) to give them a tip, or to at least be friendly. Instead all I see is the same old, tired, juvenile smack talk further berating them for lack of skill, lack of gear, lack of buffs, etc. Seriously, if this is simply a minority, I'd really encourage the silent majority of mature PvP'ers to take control of the presentation and reputation of PvP'ers to the non-PvP community, and especially to those who might be willing to give it a try. If you want to grow your play group, you need to make it more appealing.

Finally, the constant "taunt" I see of people being "afraid" of PvP is just the icing on the cake. Afraid? No. It is an electronic game. For someone who's worn a military uniform, there is nothing to be afraid of here. There are plenty of more important things to be afraid of in the world. People who don't PvP do it for reasons like I mentioned above, or perhaps for their own reasons, but the bottom line is the same: they don't think it is fun. Make it fun for a broader audience and you'll be well on your way to a large and happy PvP community.

[jasonh]

While I don't necessarily agree with all of these points, I agree with many. Furthermore, I appreciate that you are concise and express your viewpoints with little room for misinterpretation.

To sum, well said.

[Lennart]

While I don't necessarily agree with all of these points, I agree with many. Furthermore, I appreciate that you are concise and express your viewpoints with little room for misinterpretation.

To sum, well said.

Thank you. I don't pretend to speak for anyone in this but myself. I'll let others talk about why they do or don't PVP. I just subscribe to the philosophy that if I'm part of the target audience (someone who doesn't PVP), those trying to get more PVPers should know why. It's awfully hard for them to succeed if they lack data. So this is one data point. I encourage others to add their own.

[hbkrusso]

I enjoy pvp in all its form the shit talk the killing hell the being killed its just good fun.

ill add over my years of playing mmo's and pvping ive found there are always players who will take you under their wing and give you tips even if they just beat the shit out of you. sure you will have asshats in pvp but you run into those playing pve as well loot hoes, spawn gankers, ect ect ect just real low life aholes. there are good and bad players on both sides and some who are douches in both ways..goes with the territory of playing online

the next time you try pvping and someone beats you try sending them a tell saying goodfight you got me...mind telling me any obvious mistakes you seen me make. you may very well get surprised by the good tips you will receive

[QuorTek]

I don't mind PvP, pre-CU was just never really good for it mostly due to the buff system, that does not say that I did not pvp in live which I did when I could get to it, but again there is immature people in PvP in general as well MMO wise which is a huge set back.. funny to see a 40 year old man or woman acting like a teen, and usually it is only a small handfull of players trying to ruin it for all... win or lose with honor is a feature.

[Lennart]

the next time you try pvping and someone beats you try sending them a tell saying goodfight you got me...mind telling me any obvious mistakes you seen me make. you may very well get surprised by the good tips you will receive

I wrote a lot of words in response. They are too many. I'll sum up.

1. Done it many times in many games (the asking for tips, etc.). Mostly I'm just met with more trashtalk or ignored.

2. I feel the majority of the "low-life aholes" (good term) would probably cringe and wilt if confronted in person, or were in a real fight (fist-, sword-, fire-, or other).

3. I think electronic button pushing is so appealing to these low-life aholes because their lack of real life social skills relegates them to the basement eating Doritos, drinking Dew, and grinding for elite gear all day, and if they lose there are no real consequences. They don't realize that what they "win" is also false. Why would I want to socialize (gaming is a social activity) with such people? (Note: I do not think all PVPers are such people.)

4. Overall, I find that the behavior of the "low-life aholes" is the loudest and most prevalent among the PVP community, and that this tarnishes the overall reputation of the PVP community. It's not my job to fix it. If the PVP community finds this distasteful and wants to bring in better players (who are probably also better people), it should clean up its own act.

5. I doubt this will happen. Just take a look at YouTube and elsewhere, and you'll see that this kind of behavior is not just common, but it is actually lauded.

6. Would I ever PVP again? Maybe, but only if I've gotten to know the people in it first, and I know they aren't low-life aholes...and if the group is committed to keeping low-life aholes out.

[VyperWoo]

the next time you try pvping and someone beats you try sending them a tell saying goodfight you got me...mind telling me any obvious mistakes you seen me make. you may very well get surprised by the good tips you will receive

I wrote a lot of words in response. They are too many. I'll sum up.

1. Done it many times in many games (the asking for tips, etc.). Mostly I'm just met with more trashtalk or ignored.

2. I feel the majority of the "low-life aholes" (good term) would probably cringe and wilt if confronted in person, or were in a real fight (fist-, sword-, fire-, or other).

3. I think electronic button pushing is so appealing to these low-life aholes because their lack of real life social skills relegates them to the basement eating Doritos, drinking Dew, and grinding for elite gear all day, and if they lose there are no real consequences. They don't realize that what they "win" is also false. Why would I want to socialize (gaming is a social activity) with such people? (Note: I do not think all PVPers are such people.)

4. Overall, I find that the behavior of the "low-life aholes" is the loudest and most prevalent among the PVP community, and that this tarnishes the overall reputation of the PVP community. It's not my job to fix it. If the PVP community finds this distasteful and wants to bring in better players (who are probably also better people), it should clean up its own act.

5. I doubt this will happen. Just take a look at YouTube and elsewhere, and you'll see that this kind of behavior is not just common, but it is actually lauded.

6. Would I ever PVP again? Maybe, but only if I've gotten to know the people in it first, and I know they aren't low-life aholes...and if the group is committed to keeping low-life aholes out.

Buddy, it's just a game!

aholes are everywhere, just look down

[jasonh]

aholes are everywhere, just look down

You are either extremely flexible or have a lower half configuration much different than mine.

[Zham]

Buddy, it's just a game!

aholes are everywhere, just look down

/agreed

I would never blame a server for a lack of PvP. The playerbase has to get involved and stop hugging Durni's!

Like Nike says: JUST DO IT! ;D

[tarnwar]

your right its all about everyone needing to be Rifle/cm or Rifle/doctor to shine in pvp.

[tyodi]

PVP in SWG was never great, and not just because of the "Behind the keyboard warriors" who think smack talk makes them cool..../yawn.

One of the key issues with PVP is balance. SWG has never had any. You can still play a role, it can still be fun to a degree, but there will always be certain cookie cutter builds that the majority use. This brings a bit of fun for a while, in terms of working out how to best these different builds, but again, once you have, it loses its fun factor.

When you throw in the different levels of gear, buffs, yadda, yadda, someone with more time on their hands then is healthy, can pretty much make themselves near godlike compared to someone who is just starting out.

Essentially if you want PVP to actually be PVP you would need to make it an even platform. PVP in SWG is nothing of the sort, it is often little more than Gear Vs Gear. It can still be fun, but it will never take off and be something everyone enjoys.

It could be changed. 1 thing I would love to see is a PVP instance area, an actual Rebel Vs Imperial battle zone. One were rebels loaded in on one side, Imps on the other. All in faction armour, issued standard military issue weapons and a choice or 3 or 4 combat classes to enter as. No Jedi, no camping BHs, no "I WIN coz of my L33tGeAr" button players. No decay, no wounds to get healed after etc. Simply an enter at will, fight, die, who cares area. But one which make PVP just that. And without all the GVG aspect, it would just be a laugh and a good place to go and grind out faction points for a bit of fun. Sadly it will never happen, because the vocal L33t never want an even platform, they never have.

Truth be told in even gear, and on a level playing field, the so called L33t would be no better than anyone else. Their gear is what makes them. And the shear amount of time they have, more than makes up for any lack of ability.

Until it changes, and I know it never will, PVP will be were it was for me 10 years ago. Dead. I just don't have the time, nor the will to grind, and grind, and grind, only to put up with a bunch of 40 year old guys acting like 8 year olds.....Yay....LOL.

[KushSan]

lol dont cry guys because u die in pvp

u will die alot in swg pvp, but with every death u will learn how to fight

there are alot of guides that will help u + alot of friendly pvpers that will show u the arts of pvp

swg pvp isnt that tough or player skill based, its true u will need alot of credits and very good equipment to be good but remember pvp is endgame


EDIT: btw if u want pvp with no grinding and the easy way there are some pvp only servers out there with bluefrogs and no grind at all

[KushSan]

your right its all about everyone needing to be Rifle/cm or Rifle/doctor to shine in pvp.

not true

[huan]

It's balanced if you roll in a group with tactics.

Some classes cancel others out.
It's not balanced from class to class but that's how it should be.

[Kuse]

I definitely agree with #3, and it's why I haven't gotten into PvP yet here. When General chat breaks out into shit-talking that resembles a middle school locker room, and ends with "Well I'm just shit-talking to encourage more people to come PvP!", I realize it doesn't sound like fun. At all. What we need is to keep having events to encourage PvP or add something new... use fun as a motivator to PvP instead of childish trash talking. This event coming up sounds like a blast and I will probably participate in that!

[tyodi]

@KushSan. I have no issue with dying in PVP. Funny thing is, I used to PVP all the time back in the day. The issue was it simply stopped being fun the moment you got a life and could no longer dedicate several hours a day to keep yourself geared up....Armour blows to pieces in no time, same with weapons etc, etc, etc. And honestly, the grind just makes it too tedious and too time consuming to make it even remotely worth while.

PVP may well be end game, my point remains valid though. You will never get a large PVP community in SWG simply because of the L33t G3ar requirements to compete. Those items decay too fast, take too many man hours to accumulate, so as it did 10 years ago, and nothing has changed, PVP remains the domain of people with more time, not more skill.

I loathe to call it PVP, its nothing of the sort. It really is Gear and temp. Vs Gear and temp.

I would bet every credit I have in game though, that if a PVP zone was opened up, which gave everyone the same armour, weapons levels, and a choice of say 3 build types, with the biggest perks being little more than 10% to vets, you would see a HUGE uptake in people willing to both try and take part in PVP.

Its a bit like FPS games, PVP in those for me is PVP. It requires skill, at times luck, but at no point are you gimped simply because you are a newbie compared to a vet with zero chance of victory. If you are good enough, you can load in with the most basic gear and skills in game and still come out with many more kills than deaths. You can take months off an FPS game, yet load in, get your eye back in, and soon you are smashing it and holding your own again.

Either way, if i need my PVP fix, I play games which actually are PVP. Anything in SWG is far from it, hence I simply cannot be bothered, beating down players who have no chance gives me no sense of pride. People who attack someone AFK and take pride in it? Lame.....lamenting someone who is new or lacking in gear or understanding....and then expecting them to want to come back and keep at it.....moronic.

Like it or not, and as much as you moan at the lack of PVP in games like SWG. Often it is PVP'ers and their need to be able to pawn someone by massively out gearing them, lamenting them or simply ganking them.....that kills it.

You want PVP to take off, first of all make it a fun place to take part, learn and spend time at. Or carry on as the communities always do, make it a miserable, irritating, childish place, where it requires more time than is healthy to compete and play by yourselves.....its really that simple.

[saboteur]

your right its all about everyone needing to be Rifle/cm or Rifle/doctor to shine in pvp.

not true

It is kind of true. Stun damage and DoTs are how you win pvp. With all armor resistances getting to 90% people will always go for the weak link(LS/Stun resistance) and with batons/geo pistols being AP0 your damage is half'd with even 1% of stun resist. Sure you might see a support toon here or there but rifleman/cm with good gear win battles.

[KushSan]

your right its all about everyone needing to be Rifle/cm or Rifle/doctor to shine in pvp.

not true

It is kind of true. Stun damage and DoTs are how you win pvp. With all armor resistances getting to 90% people will always go for the weak link(LS/Stun resistance) and with batons/geo pistols being AP0 your damage is half'd with even 1% of stun resist. Sure you might see a support toon here or there but rifleman/cm with good gear win battles.

it is true that rifle/cm or doc is the easy way but u can pvp and kill with other professions too
good rifleman gear is much easier to get then a uber baton or geo but if u have one u make ur enemy go wtf, look at this fencer dude at coro with his nice baton, he will kick ur riflemans ass

[saboteur]

it is true that rifle/cm or doc is the easy way but u can pvp and kill with other professions too
good rifleman gear is much easier to get then a uber baton or geo but if u have one u make ur enemy go wtf, look at this fencer dude at coro with his nice baton, he will kick ur riflemans ass

Yeah if you have an amazing weapon then you might be able to pull something unique off like that but that's few and far between. Its a good thing that ADKs aren't in this server because it make geos and batons a joke.

[chimmers74]

I used to LOVE PvP. It was all I would do for the longest time. The reason I no longer do it is the constant trash talk after a fight. If you win be respectful and stfu or just say that was fun, see ya around. Done, you won, walk away with that notch on your belt and respect from the other side for not being an ass. If you loose be respectful and stfu or say that was fun, see ya around. Done, you lost, walk away with the knowledge of what you can do better next meeting. Perhaps I've become too adult and just don't get the bullshit that comes from the e-peen of some players.
I've often gone and gotten a buff to go join in the fun of the PvP here I see or hear the banter and smack talk and decide "Yeah, f this, I ain't up for this kinda childish shit today" and I'll log in a grinding toon or a crafter till the crap is done and gone.
*2 pennies spent and walks away*