Why I Don't PvP

[saboteur]

Yeah but if you think smack talk is kiddish then add them to your ignore list and continue fighting.

[Vikshtrum]

Telling someone to ignore an abuser is the most passive bullshit solution one could possibly come up with. Just under it is threatening to dismantle general chat because despite the community's best effort to make these delusional pvp "powerhouses" take it to tells already, they just couldn't clean up general with the 0% increase in power/authority they received to do so.

[saboteur]

Telling someone to ignore an abuser is the most passive bullshit solution one could possibly come up with. Just under it is threatening to dismantle general chat because despite the community's best effort to make these delusional pvp "powerhouses" take it to tells already, they just couldn't clean up general with the 0% increase in power/authority they received to do so.

Well do you really you are going to convince a epeen PVPer to change his ways? The quickest way to resolve this problem is a simple command block them from showing up in your chat and get back to the battle. Or use your expert debate skills to make them see the error of their ways.

[Maldred]

Telling someone to ignore an abuser is the most passive bullshit solution one could possibly come up with. Just under it is threatening to dismantle general chat because despite the community's best effort to make these delusional pvp "powerhouses" take it to tells already, they just couldn't clean up general with the 0% increase in power/authority they received to do so.

General Chat has been declining into oblivion for the last 6 to 8 months. Only recently has the PvP ugliness reared it's head in the channel before spilling the drama to the forums. Enough is enough already. Cynar and Ed have been warning people for months as to what would happen if it wasn't cleaned up and used as intended. People chose to abuse it again with zero regard for the community and the new players who rely on it for advice. Banning individuals won't stop it. Entire guilds are involved now.

Time to put the horse down.

[Win]

[saboteur]

Thank you Win for furthering the conversation.

[Win]

Thank you Win for furthering the conversation.

Anything to be of service. Furthering epic win threads such as this is of upmost importance.

[Vikshtrum]

You say banning individuals won't help, Maldred. OK, well, it's not that I don't believe you, but maybe you could show me some empirical data to buttress your claim. Exactly how many members have been banned since Cynar and Ed gave us the warning, about, what, a month ago now? How many people have been banned due to abusing general? Because unless you can show me in that sense that banning people doesn't work, that x amount of people were banned and yet came right back and did the same thing, or it failed to dissuade others from acting like fools, why would we think it doesn't have any chance at working?

[Cynar]

General Chat is on the way out. What will replace it? More than likely something similar to what other mmo's have/use. You want to talk trash to each other? You'll have to do so in spatial chat, personal tells, or smack talk area of the forums. New player chat will be heavily policed and very restrictive. In other words no drug talk, no profanity, no sexual innuendo, no smack talk. If you aren't helping a new player and doing so nicely you will be banned from that chat. It won't be there for causal conversation of any kind.

Trade chat will be limited as it currently is. This is what happens when adults can not or will not behave. I've got to put everyone in the high chair and put a pacifier in the communal mouth.

[Vikshtrum]

Just deleted a long winded rebuttal for something more, uhhhh, relaxed. So here that is instead:

Why are you treating us like adult babies, who are being put into a figurative high chair because they didn't behave? Show us evidence, please, of us not behaving. You log general chat, how many times can you point out the community scolded the shit out these GCW idiots to take it to tells already? There's not much the community can do beyond that... public scrutiny and discouragement is the only tool we have. And we USED it.

Nobody is answering this question, and it makes the decision to dismantle general HIGHLY suspect in my opinion. How many people have been banned since you warned us a while back, and how many people came back and did the same thing regardless of the stiff punishment, making you feel like there truly is no other solution?

Please, bring on some actual data, bring on some reasoning, tell us in detail, the way an adult would talk to another adult, not an adult to a child, what happened, how many times, etc, that is making you take away something the VAST majority of your server doesn't want you to. You want to scold us, fine, maybe we have it coming. But until you prove it in a way that is based on some evidence, and not just you "having it up to here" for some reason, I believe we should do our best to demand you reconsider.

[Maldred]

You say banning individuals won't help, Maldred. OK, well, it's not that I don't believe you, but maybe you could show me some empirical data to buttress your claim. Exactly how many members have been banned since Cynar and Ed gave us the warning, about, what, a month ago now? How many people have been banned due to abusing general? Because unless you can show me in that sense that banning people doesn't work, that x amount of people were banned and yet came right back and did the same thing, or it failed to dissuade others from acting like fools, why would we think it doesn't have any chance at working?

Sorry Vikshtrum, I missed this reply somehow. I was not ignoring your question.

Off hand, between forum bans and game bans for general asshattery and attention seeking idiocy, I can say I know of at least 5. Those are just the ones I know of personally. Repeat offenders have come back and been re-banned as well. Ed and/or Cynar would have to disclose the actual numbers if they choose to.

I am not against a General chat system in the game but in it's current state there is no way to have it used as intended unless resources that are not currently available to police it. My biggest concern are 2 things which were beaten to death already in multiple threads since early summer. Those being: A) Overall image of the community to players looking for a first impression and B) Availability of help to assist newbies in getting re-acclimated with the game or aiding the few first time players that are popping up.

Cynar addressed this in his post above so it looks like we will have an outlet for new players to get the help they deserve without being drowned out by the shenanigans that sometimes accompany General chat in it's current state. So the trash talk and general drama can still happen...just to a much smaller audience via groupchat/private tells/guildchat/spatial which in my opinion is as it should be.

Will it make the game world smaller? Absolutely. BUT because of it my friends list gets bigger which is what I loved most about live. It was those personal relationships that were built over years of playing together that made this game special.

[Syke]

Trade chat will be limited as it currently is. This is what happens when adults can not or will not behave. I've got to put everyone in the high
chair and put a pacifier in the communal mouth.

My only problem with trade chat is it's almost completely useless. It's just spam. You can't ask a question (like, "anybody know a place with stocked mini comp suits?" or "does anybody know any chefs that take custom orders?") and get a response, because it's completely overridden by spam.

When I've had these questions, General Chat tends to answer them for me very well.

Edit: This isn't an attempt to try and get you to change your mind on Gen Chat, just pointing out that in my experience Trade Chat is really pretty useless and I'd love to see some limits on the spam (once every 120 seconds or something).

[Cynar]

Just deleted a long winded rebuttal for something more, uhhhh, relaxed. So here that is instead:

Why are you treating us like adult babies, who are being put into a figurative high chair because they didn't behave? Show us evidence, please, of us not behaving. You log general chat, how many times can you point out the community scolded the shit out these GCW idiots to take it to tells already? There's not much the community can do beyond that... public scrutiny and discouragement is the only tool we have. And we USED it.

Nobody is answering this question, and it makes the decision to dismantle general HIGHLY suspect in my opinion. How many people have been banned since you warned us a while back, and how many people came back and did the same thing regardless of the stiff punishment, making you feel like there truly is no other solution?

Please, bring on some actual data, bring on some reasoning, tell us in detail, the way an adult would talk to another adult, not an adult to a child, what happened, how many times, etc, that is making you take away something the VAST majority of your server doesn't want you to. You want to scold us, fine, maybe we have it coming. But until you prove it in a way that is based on some evidence, and not just you "having it up to here" for some reason, I believe we should do our best to demand you reconsider.

Ed and I have decided it's time for it to go. We aren't going to show anyone data, nor do we have to. If you sit in general chat for more than an hour during prime time hours it's nothing to be proud of. Compared to a year ago it's the equivalent of going from NPR to Jerry Springer. I don't have the time to sit here a sort through every damn reason why it needs to go. You aren't the one having to deal with tickets, pm's, emails, suspending characters, banning accounts, and reading hours of log files every time someone goes on a rant about something.

The vast majority of people talking in general are fueling the flames when the fire sparks. The rules specifically say no vulgarity, talk about drugs, no hostility towards others, yet it is almost an hourly thing. We begged people to use restraint and be considerate of others. I'm not alway on in-game on my CSR. Sometimes I am on a play character, sometimes I am just monitoring general chat or server chat logs as I watch TV or work from home. I can tell you that between making light of our policies and the "oh you better not do that the CSR's are watching" jokes, we are over it.

Our skin is pretty thick, but our time is valuable and instead of wasting it on adolescent chat behavior we have decided to redirect that energy into further DEVELOPMENT and HELPING with REAL ISSUES. The chat debate is over. Changes are coming, adapt or don't. The conversation about it has concluded. We have taken months of people's opinion and daily behavior into account and the result is it has been decide it's time is over. When the new chat system settings are ready you will adjust to it or not, your choice.

Don't make anymore topics on it. Don't get people worked up in General Chat about it, don't PM or email us about it. If you do disciplinary measures will be taken. This is a free server to play on and we encourage debate, however this debate has been deemed as over and done. Do not pursue it any further.