Remove spider venom from loot tables.

bobaphat · Unread post Sat Oct 03, 2015 5:16 pm

With pvp finally starting to pick up and the brilliant TEF patch ensuring that it will continue to do so. Can we go ahead and buck the trend before pvp turns into CM/Rifles vs Doc/Rifles and every Jedi being a healer 4xxx4 carbon copy? 2K dots are going to do that soon enough.
It killed the game on live and apparently it's already done the same to Basilisk. So let's just go ahead and fix that before it really starts here ja?

inb4 im/urbutthurt

bobaphat · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:44 am

Lots of tells in game agreeing with me about CM ruining pvp but no thoughts from the forum crowd?

Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 7:49 am

I'll review venom strength/effect settings.

jwyork · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 8:06 am

It is definately insane ... I remember sick poisons in live, but I don't remember them quite as good as I have seen here.

Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:18 am

butthurt

commotion · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:34 am

I'm NOT a CM but I remember a few CM's that would do sick damage on live. So this isn't out of the norm. If anyone can remember Sweet-n-Sassy on Starsider from Live will also back me up on this statement.

tarnwar · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:46 am

doctors or jedi with healer xxx3? or is it xxx2 for poison? (one of those) can heal any Poison in 2-3 cure poisons. make CM worthless. No need to remove venoms.

(side note, will be leveling my CM today for the imperial side.)

Rhaige9 · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:29 am

Work on mine too. I can keep Sae in the cantina, while you play the CM.

tarnwar · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:10 pm

Also have to remember your not getting hit by 2k poison from 1 throw,

thats an area and a single stacked.

daetalus · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 5:35 pm

tarnwar wrote:Also have to remember your not getting hit by 2k poison from 1 throw,

thats an area and a single stacked.

He's just crying b/c an unbuffed muggle blackbarred him and he didn't have the foresight to take a healing line. So nerf them all b/c they are bad.

bobaphat · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:17 pm

No, I'm "crying" because a single class will ruin pvp encounters for damn near every other class in the game. Some anonymous guy that wants to talk crap but probably hasn't been SF yet, doesn't change that because it's the truth and everyone knows it. All I'm trying to suggest is that we try and fix the problem before it starts, every pvper here knows what pre-cu pvp was like with OP poisons, is that something this pvp community wants to do again?

Also, with 400+ strength cures and only Doctor 2xxx (and 4xxx for disease), you'll need minimum 2 successful cures to get rid of those 2 stack poisons. You're for sure going to take at least one tick every time. That's assuming you can find the supplies to get cures that high you can actually use.
Now try curing entire groups of players, even as a MDOC, good luck. Especially since that time you spend curing? Guess what, the CM can spend that time reapplying poisons.

I really just don't understand how anyone can argue against CM being ridiculous. We have an opportunity to make this pre-cu experience better, why not take it?

Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:18 pm

tarnwar wrote:doctors or jedi with healer xxx3? or is it xxx2 for poison? (one of those) can heal any Poison in 2-3 cure poisons. make CM worthless. No need to remove venoms.

(side note, will be leveling my CM today for the imperial side.)

I didn't say remove. I said we would look at the strength/settings.

No poison should be hitting for more than about 1k (unless it's made from Legendary Venom) or it is a game breaker. If this is Legendary... well, it's no different than someone looting a Legendary T21 and 1 shotting people. It CAN happen.

Pwntera · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:39 pm

I think the problem is most people don't know you can stack all 6 different poison types (A, B, C, AreaA, AreaB, AreaC) so even non-enhanced poisons if 6x stacked will tick in the 800+ range if done by a MCM. While sure spider venom poisons if stacked can tick 2k+ but it is very rare to get venom that good and they have a limited use.

My opinion is a Doc can always use janta enhanced Poison Cures to negate all of the CMs usefulness as well as a Jedi with the healing cure tree.

(Maybe leave poisons damage alone but change the difficulty of the mob that drops the venom or lower the droprate)

DarkLordIce · Unread post Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:59 pm

Why not just fix it so CM poisons don't stack? Or maybe just so only the strongest AoE and strongest Single target stack, so no more of the sA+sB+sC+aA+aB+aC = tick dead silliness.

Perhaps they could be coded to ramp up with time, similar to a real illness/disease. 1st tick = 1/3 the normal damage, 2nd tick = 2/3, 3rd tick = full damage. Now, I realize in current game terms this would make it take like 30 seconds to ramp, which is could be unreasonable, I just wanted to make the point. Having some sort of ramp would provide opportunity for good doctors to manage the counter play window and perform appropriate battle triage.

Either or both of these steps may make it unnecessary to look at enhanced poisons, and make it reasonable to expect doctors to carry enhanced cures to counter.

In addition, maybe you could balance mind bar healing a bit better, as only CM can do it. Make it cost a resource for CMs to do it instead of the wounds it currently does? Give us a reason/ability to do something effective besides run around chucking chems like a mustard gas machine gun.

The ability to heavily target the least healable pool with large amounts of damage is what results in the "15 seconds of pvp" moreso than just the CM's doing what they do. I'm A-OK with it being more difficult/less efficient to heal, but maybe it should shift a tiny bit the other way to add some more dynamics to PvP in general.

Besides that, speaking as someone or PvPs as a MDoc/MCM "Support" toon, I support any measure that reduces inventory clutter of medical shit!

jwyork · Unread post Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:23 am

BigQEd wrote:
tarnwar wrote:doctors or jedi with healer xxx3? or is it xxx2 for poison? (one of those) can heal any Poison in 2-3 cure poisons. make CM worthless. No need to remove venoms.

(side note, will be leveling my CM today for the imperial side.)
I didn't say remove. I said we would look at the strength/settings.

No poison should be hitting for more than about 1k (unless it's made from Legendary Venom) or it is a game breaker. If this is Legendary... well, it's no different than someone looting a Legendary T21 and 1 shotting people. It CAN happen.

I agree completely .. i know shocker. I am trying to remember when the stackability did change. I think it was at the end of pre cu but it could have been later. I remember something along the lines of the more potent poison replaced the current one or if it was less it just didn't hit other than the initial tick. I also remember jedi cure poison not completely removing the dot but diminishing it's strength .. so if it initially ticked for 1k .. the first cure might reduce it by half ... then half again .. then completely gone.

QuorTek · Unread post Sun Oct 11, 2015 10:25 am

Just put some skills into the mastery box meaning only full mastery will grant the max effects or something down those lines, it will force people to max specialists having to sacrefice other things and maybe by that balance some of the stuff out... if what it mean that people only take certain lines in different trees to get to spoil the maximum or close to maximum of the potential of the given profession.

Along those lines you could put smuggler need to be master for double payout from missions and well and so on and so forth, though this would nto be calling for a nerf or revamp but fixing certain professions still being able to gain the maximum of this and that, but the absolute best gain coming from the actual mastery box.

tarnwar · Unread post Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:47 pm

back to this whole thing, if you make it so they cant stack you need to lower the force cure poison/disease strength, looks like it was increased HUGELY before it would take about 1/4 to 1/2 your force bar now it takes 2-4 uses of it...

RIP CM's as long as theres a jedi around.

Nothing like Fire spider enhanced poisons being removed before the first tick even hits now with this latest patch.

Bobroberts · Unread post Wed Oct 14, 2015 11:43 am

I keep seeing these pvp threads about nerfing this or that. What happened to being prepared? If you know there are 2k poisons then bring Docs and Jedi with heals to pvp. If you know that there are lots of Jedi then bring CM with badass poison stacks. Instead of changing the game, change the way you play. You have 10 character slots, use em for something other than afk bots.

Grumm · Unread post Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:03 pm

I know this is gonna sound insane, but what if you had a doc buff you with poison resits, or even better you went and got some SEAS holy crap what a concept. I mean since we're talking about needing PVP stuff let's go ahead and nerd all the melee class because I'm ranged and don't have enough melee defense.

bobaphat · Unread post Wed Oct 14, 2015 7:29 pm

You obviously don't know me if you don't think I have all of the above.

Why change the game?
Because Pre-Cu needs changing. Sorry but take your rose coloured glasses off, the game was/is good but it's got a lot of room for improvements. I felt this is one of those areas, so I suggested it.