Regular player bounties

[skyhunter11]

I given this alot of thought and voted no. As much as i relish the thought of hunting non-jedi players, i like the current system. Plenty to hunt and love the challenge as it stands. I wasn't a fan of the bh system in the NGE.

I think what should be examined first is how do we get more people involved in GCW PvP. Wars are fought for control of territory and resources. Faction control of a planet should have perks for the victors.

[beowulfchauffeur]

Based on my experience in PvP lately, this would just turn into a "who-can-bring-more-friends" battle. I've seen and participated in a number of GCW skirmishes that start off as 1 v 1 or a handful v a handful, and they invariably end in one side bringing out overwhelming numbers in a second wave.

I don't see how group TEF would solve anything, based on the current state of GCW PvP it would just turn literally every PvP situation into a zerg.

With respect, that already happens related to pvp so why should it not be extended to bounties?? If I'm standing with 3 knights and get jumped by 3 bhs my knight friends arn't going to stand around and watch...

*Edit - Lets not confuse topics here, I'm talking about for BH/player interaction. GCW Pvp is its own blob shit show which plagues every game with open world pvp.

My point is, we currently have two systems for PvP - GCW which you even refer to as a "blob shit show," and BH, which is currently pretty clean cut (unless the BHs happen to be factional, but that turns the situation into a GCW one rather than a simple bounty hunt). Why the heck would we want to turn BH missions into a clone of GCW PvP?

More specifically to the 3 knights question... the way jedi is intended to work on the server, as outlined by Ed and the CSRs, a knight should be able to fight off a handful of BHs. If you bring group TEF into it and allow jedi to have backup, there will literally be no reason whatsoever to play a BH - you'd be better off playing a jedi.

As it stands currently, BH is the one form of PvP that you can reliably participate in with only 1-2 other players. I can't see any good reason to change that dynamic, regardless of whether the target of the hunt is a jedi or not. If you want to play GCW, do so.

[Cynar]

Yeah this is drifting in & out and off topic.

No one ever said Bounty Hunters would be able to hunt other Bounty Hunters. This isn't about a revenge system for Jedi, it's about adding to the Bounty Hunter system, and adding additional missions for Bounty Hunters. BH's hunting BH's is kinda stupid.

BH hunting BH makes perfect sense?
Im not saying that they should get a bounty on them for collecting one. Plenty of BH's do regular pvp which would no doubt term them??

I will change my vote to no if certain classes combat classes are going to be immune from this.

I'm not saying they won't, but it's not the purpose of the system for pissed off Jedi to grab and hold people's missions. I'm talking to Ed and Cach about reducing how long a mission can be held. Mr. Kelec, don't you vote threaten us sir, you should know the results of that line of take your ball and go home attitude doesn't play well here! Oh yeah and you can't change your vote. I disabled that for this poll. It was meant for people to read and think about it before just clicking yes or no

You've been here for 15 days, not sure you know what the devs want..

You have been here for more than 15 days, you should know not to discourage new people from conversation like this. While we are drifting off a bit we need to get back. This isn't about providing rewards, changing TEF, Faction points, etc. It's about providing additional targets for willing participants to the bounty hunter system. Willing participants would currently be described as those willing to participate in pvp via choice or by playing Jedi. That definition could be changed or tweaked.

[IndianaSlone]

I know myself and Acroyear mentioned earlier on in this discussion the "Imperial Crackdown" and contraband scan concept that was in LIVE for a bit. I'm curious to see what others thoughts were on that system as a potential piece (on it's own or in conjunction with) of player bounties.

What do others think of using something like this to add visibility to a player until they reached a certain value to pop on the bounty terminal? Some thoughts and concepts below.
i) In theory you don't have to carry illegally sliced items, spice, etc... So that is a 100% to avoid scans.
ii) You aren't always scanned even when traveling, so it's not 100% you will get scanned or fail if you are scanned
iii) The more you get caught with the higher the visibility value you receive (ex: 1 sliced weapon isn't as much as 2 sliced weapons and a crate of spice)
iv) Items can have different levels of legality / punishment (ex: Rebellion items are more illegal than say a sliced armor piece)
v) You can make use of smugglers in your group when traveling through starports and cantinas (where scans typically occurred) to reduce scan failure % chance (giving smugglers a more smuggly role).
vi) Contraband scans would also increase the Imperial presence in cities, giving everything a more Empire controls the galaxy feel, which from an immersion standpoint wouldn't be bad.

Again this is all based on the assumption that the old functionality that was in the code could be resurrected from the bit bucket and potentially tweaked as needed. Since it was in LIVE I feel like it deserves consideration if for nothing else than it might be a good starting point for player bounties and not require completely custom code from the ground up as well as something outside of GCW and current PvP.

[Kelec]

Yeah this is drifting in & out and off topic.

No one ever said Bounty Hunters would be able to hunt other Bounty Hunters. This isn't about a revenge system for Jedi, it's about adding to the Bounty Hunter system, and adding additional missions for Bounty Hunters. BH's hunting BH's is kinda stupid.

BH hunting BH makes perfect sense?
Im not saying that they should get a bounty on them for collecting one. Plenty of BH's do regular pvp which would no doubt term them??

I will change my vote to no if certain classes combat classes are going to be immune from this.

I'm not saying they won't, but it's not the purpose of the system for pissed off Jedi to grab and hold people's missions. I'm talking to Ed and Cach about reducing how long a mission can be held. Mr. Kelec, don't you vote threaten us sir, you should know the results of that line of take your ball and go home attitude doesn't play well here! Oh yeah and you can't change your vote. I disabled that for this poll. It was meant for people to read and think about it before just clicking yes or no

You've been here for 15 days, not sure you know what the devs want..

You have been here for more than 15 days, you should know not to discourage new people from conversation like this. While we are drifting off a bit we need to get back. This isn't about providing rewards, changing TEF, Faction points, etc. It's about providing additional targets for willing participants to the bounty hunter system. Willing participants would currently be described as those willing to participate in pvp via choice or by playing Jedi. That definition could be changed or tweaked.

To be clear I'm not threatening anything.
Regardless of if the option to change my vote is enabled or not I certainly am well within my right to change my opinion, doubly so if the circumstances around the matter change.

I'm not sure where the idea of holding missions got attached to my name but I in no way support that. Nor do I support Jedi hunting BHs. Additionally, I am not discouraging anyone from offering an opinion.

I've said it several times now, player bounties for those that kill other players end of story.

[SWGPerkins]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but yeah, the BH vs. anyone mechanic was pretty fun (and something the NGE got right, in my opinion.)

I used to make a sort of meta-game with it, like rack up a bit of a bounty and then get into a sort of cat-and-mouse game. I used to do things like go to Yavin hunting Black Sun, sort of "business as usual," but in fact hoping for a BH or two to show up. So instead of a boring night of trying to get a jetback base or looted BH armor, you have a reason to check your radar nonstop. A couple times I had a few good chases across Yavin IV and ended up fighting these guys, sometimes being the victim and sometimes the victor. It certainly adds some adrenaline to the loot grind, and also gives you some valuable lessons on how the fight mechanics can go.

Just a little more $.02 from me there.

[Anlbrd]

You've been here for 15 days, not sure you know what the devs want..

Firstly - thanks for the welcome Secondly - Gratz, you're a vet and seem to know as little about what they want as me. Read the other recent threads re: TEF and responses in the BH thread in the suggestions forum and you'll find Ed putting down mental TEF clusterfucking, in that specific instance re: 20-1 odds in the BH system. Pretty relevant here.

You have been here for more than 15 days, you should know not to discourage new people from conversation like this. While we are drifting off a bit we need to get back. This isn't about providing rewards, changing TEF, Faction points, etc. It's about providing additional targets for willing participants to the bounty hunter system. Willing participants would currently be described as those willing to participate in pvp via choice or by playing Jedi. That definition could be changed or tweaked.

Cynar - do you think it could work having the higher faction rank as being the way of willingly joining in? As Jedi become permanently overt, could you not also have players of Xrank and higher become available for 1v1 BH missions?

From the discussion so far - do you want to steer this direction away from tieing this in with faction pvp and look for a totally fresh kind of mechanic to do the job?

I know myself and Acroyear mentioned earlier on in this discussion the "Imperial Crackdown" and contraband scan concept that was in LIVE for a bit. I'm curious to see what others thoughts were on that system as a potential piece (on it's own or in conjunction with) of player bounties.

What do others think of using something like this to add visibility to a player until they reached a certain value to pop on the bounty terminal? Some thoughts and concepts below.

[/quote]

I personally don't like it. Everyone uses sliced weapons and potentially limitting that hits Smugglers hard. The way I think about it too - either scans would be frequent and people would have to be careful to avoid them, causing the above hit on some level OR the scans wouldn't be too punitive and people would feel a bit ripped off by the random nature of being scanned. I'm trying to imagine a sweet spot in the middle but as a system I think this would feel more like an inconvenience than rewarding content (And I play a BH who would eventually have more PVP from it).

Re: the atmosphere of an Imperial crackdown - It's something that would have to be done right or there'd be no Rebs or smugglers. Very few players in my experience REALLY want to play a rigged game where they're under a 1984-esque jackboot.

If that seemed like I poo-pooed the idea out of hand, I'm sorry and it isn't how I intended it. The reason I didn't come up with an alternative idea is because I've not thought of one yet

[Anlbrd]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but yeah, the BH vs. anyone mechanic was pretty fun (and something the NGE got right, in my opinion.)

I used to make a sort of meta-game with it, like rack up a bit of a bounty and then get into a sort of cat-and-mouse game. I used to do things like go to Yavin hunting Black Sun, sort of "business as usual," but in fact hoping for a BH or two to show up. So instead of a boring night of trying to get a jetback base or looted BH armor, you have a reason to check your radar nonstop. A couple times I had a few good chases across Yavin IV and ended up fighting these guys, sometimes being the victim and sometimes the victor. It certainly adds some adrenaline to the loot grind, and also gives you some valuable lessons on how the fight mechanics can go.

Just a little more $.02 from me there.

Even though you enjoyed it and it added to your experience - do you think you would willingly declare a kind of 'overt' status to put yourself on the terms? What kind of bonus/benefit/boon would it take for you to do that, do you think?

[SWGPerkins]

Someone mentioned it earlier, but yeah, the BH vs. anyone mechanic was pretty fun (and something the NGE got right, in my opinion.)

I used to make a sort of meta-game with it, like rack up a bit of a bounty and then get into a sort of cat-and-mouse game. I used to do things like go to Yavin hunting Black Sun, sort of "business as usual," but in fact hoping for a BH or two to show up. So instead of a boring night of trying to get a jetback base or looted BH armor, you have a reason to check your radar nonstop. A couple times I had a few good chases across Yavin IV and ended up fighting these guys, sometimes being the victim and sometimes the victor. It certainly adds some adrenaline to the loot grind, and also gives you some valuable lessons on how the fight mechanics can go.

Just a little more $.02 from me there.

Even though you enjoyed it and it added to your experience - do you think you would willingly declare a kind of 'overt' status to put yourself on the terms? What kind of bonus/benefit/boon would it take for you to do that, do you think?

Good question - on live in the player bounty era, the benefit of going overt involved increasing your kill count, which allowed you to get some excellent faction gear (saber crystal, speederbike, faction armor) as you progressed in the ranks. PVP kills increased your faction points quite a lot if the sides were reasonably balanced (or heavily balanced in your favor.)

In SWGEmu, I haven't done any PVP yet so I am not aware if there is any reward for PVP aside from the experience itself.

[Anlbrd]

I didn't play the NGE so I don't know about the bounty system. When I asked about going overt - I meant : If a player bounty system was implemented here but you had to opt into it - Other than the fun and experiences you had being hunted, what would it take for you to click a button that added you to BH terms?

I'm driving at rewards that aren't tied to the GCW factions

[SWGPerkins]

I didn't play the NGE so I don't know about the bounty system. When I asked about going overt - I meant : If a player bounty system was implemented here but you had to opt into it - Other than the fun and experiences you had being hunted, what would it take for you to click a button that added you to BH terms?

I'm driving at rewards that aren't tied to the GCW factions

Someone might kill me for this but I'll go ahead and say it:
After a certain (random?) number of successful fights against bounty hunters, a hint at one of your Jedi unlock tasks when you meditate at a shrine. The hard part might be making this non-rigged (i.e. getting your buddy's BH to take your mission and take a dive in the fight.)

That's just an idea, though.

[KushSan]

just bring back the pre9 tef system in all its glory...

keep it hard&fun
if people wanna play 1vs1 battles, just duel or look for 14.1carebear systemserver

all these rules (notef/combatant/jedi everywhere) (''u cant fight me because of this rule but i can kill ur friend'')that came later, destroyd it and cut down the features of a great game

this is a social sandbox, and if u can bring in a army of players that will protect u and bh's or jedi start crying because they cant win,... then let them cry, everyone get the same options in this game and if someone group up with friends, u can do that too!


so make jedi real alpha again, add pre9 tef and we will see real gcw, real bountyhunting and real swg back again!


only my thoughts and sry again for my broken english lmao

[beowulfchauffeur]

The hard part might be making this non-rigged (i.e. getting your buddy's BH to take your mission and take a dive in the fight.)

To a certain extent this already exists - in the current BH v Jedi system, you can't see your own alts or guildmates on the terminals.

However, I'd argue there needs to be some kind of downside for losing a fight if there's going to be an upside (risk vs reward type of thing). Jedi lose XP, but that's not a detriment to a normal player.

[Anlbrd]

I didn't play the NGE so I don't know about the bounty system. When I asked about going overt - I meant : If a player bounty system was implemented here but you had to opt into it - Other than the fun and experiences you had being hunted, what would it take for you to click a button that added you to BH terms?

I'm driving at rewards that aren't tied to the GCW factions

Someone might kill me for this but I'll go ahead and say it:
After a certain (random?) number of successful fights against bounty hunters, a hint at one of your Jedi unlock tasks when you meditate at a shrine. The hard part might be making this non-rigged (i.e. getting your buddy's BH to take your mission and take a dive in the fight.)

[Edit] - And in response to the above: risk V reward - I'd say the risk ought to be equal to the reward. The BH wins and it adds an extra stage to your unlock, potentially even one you've already done >:D >:D

Really though, there's no way of making it abuse-proof. The desire to be Jedi could have total strangers co-operating.

That's just an idea, though.

People are still unlocking Jedi without the help - I'd never personally support making it easier in any way, at all. Awful!Awful!Awful! :p

If I devil's advocate the idea makes some sense when you're trying to weigh out risk v reward - but we HAVE TO be more imaginative I think.

[SWGPerkins]

The hard part might be making this non-rigged (i.e. getting your buddy's BH to take your mission and take a dive in the fight.)

To a certain extent this already exists - in the current BH v Jedi system, you can't see your own alts or guildmates on the terminals.

However, I'd argue there needs to be some kind of downside for losing a fight if there's going to be an upside (risk vs reward type of thing). Jedi lose XP, but that's not a detriment to a normal player.

It's true. Off the top of my head part of the downside might be that you always have to be wearing your more expensive gear when you're out doing PVE things, because who knows when that stun bat or Jawa ion rifle-wielding hunter will show up to rain down the stun on your head.

Or else a rating system that goes from -5000 to +5000 where points are earned on some sort of scale like this:
2x gain when you're below 0
0.5x loss when you're below 0
0.5x gain when you're above 0
2x loss when you're above 0

[SWGPerkins]

If I devil's advocate the idea makes some sense when you're trying to weigh out risk v reward - but we HAVE TO be more imaginative I think.

Getting the mission payout as a reward, then?

[IndianaSlone]

I personally don't like it. Everyone uses sliced weapons and potentially limitting that hits Smugglers hard. The way I think about it too - either scans would be frequent and people would have to be careful to avoid them, causing the above hit on some level OR the scans wouldn't be too punitive and people would feel a bit ripped off by the random nature of being scanned. I'm trying to imagine a sweet spot in the middle but as a system I think this would feel more like an inconvenience than rewarding content (And I play a BH who would eventually have more PVP from it).

Re: the atmosphere of an Imperial crackdown - It's something that would have to be done right or there'd be no Rebs or smugglers. Very few players in my experience REALLY want to play a rigged game where they're under a 1984-esque jackboot.

If that seemed like I poo-pooed the idea out of hand, I'm sorry and it isn't how I intended it. The reason I didn't come up with an alternative idea is because I've not thought of one yet

No I definitely appreciate the feedback and discussion points. I know what I outlined as how the Imperial Crackdown worked in LIVE might not be "perfect" but wanted to start the discussion as it is a mechanism that could be used to identify those who have "broken the law". And maybe with enough ideas it could be a viable option to hit that sweet spot. Since it would of course need some tweaking to balance the line between too punitive and too boring. In LIVE you could pay a fine to avoid any fights, etc... so maybe it's an increasing fine every time you are caught (which could help take credits out of the economy) and eventually if you either don't pay it or it's been too many times caught you pop...

But really it was just the first thing that popped into my head when I heard the idea of player bounties and as a smuggler on LIVE and here - I've always wanted to feel more like a smuggler and less of a crafter who makes spice and slices. So having a way to help people avoid scans or potentially be caught with illegal goods and have a BH after me feels right. That and Smugglers and Bounty Hunters have always gone hand-in-hand in Star Wars lore. (which I think we can all agree on that point )

[Cynar]

I didn't play the NGE so I don't know about the bounty system. When I asked about going overt - I meant : If a player bounty system was implemented here but you had to opt into it - Other than the fun and experiences you had being hunted, what would it take for you to click a button that added you to BH terms?

I'm driving at rewards that aren't tied to the GCW factions

Someone might kill me for this but I'll go ahead and say it:
After a certain (random?) number of successful fights against bounty hunters, a hint at one of your Jedi unlock tasks when you meditate at a shrine. The hard part might be making this non-rigged (i.e. getting your buddy's BH to take your mission and take a dive in the fight.)

That's just an idea, though.

Let's make something perfectly clear one more time. There will never be any hints, clues, or direct tips on how to unlock your Jedi. People need to stop suggesting it and freakin get over it. We've said time and time again ITS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. Don't ask, don't suggest, don't kid around about it. 16 months later and it's still a tired NO.

As far as regular players losing xp that's not going to happen. They will either lose faction points, a little pride or both. That is all.

The reward for Bounty Hunters is they will get paid cold hard credits, possible faction points, and get to add your name to the kill list. That is all.

Ain't gonna be no special armor, weapons, loot, vehicles, houses, titles, food, drugs, insert your crazy ass request idea here rewards. The whole point was to add additional targets for bounty hunters to go after besides Jedi and provide more pvp to the server. We aren't changing TEF, xp rates, blah blah blah blah blah. If you have honest sensible ideas we will listen. Crazy shit needs to go folks. Stay on topic please!!

[BigQEd]

Back to BH vs Jedi.

[ShardInferno]

I like the idea if it's implemented correctly. For example, I have always wanted to play a mercenary for hire. This week I might fight with some rebels, next week I might sell them out to the imperials. ::shrugs:: As long as it has some way of opting out, I'm totally down.