Freeze buff timer at log off.

[Atis]

Now buffs can expire after character is logged off. That makes combat activity unsuitable for short sessions. Most fights absolutely require full buffs and it takes 10-20 mins to get ready for fight. It's supposed to be offset by long buffs duration - 15 mins to get buffs and about 3 hours to use them but with short play sessions buffs take significant part of play time. If I got 1 hour to play before sleep, spending 15mins every day to get buffed is a waste. It makes game unfriendly for players with limited time.

It can be easily fixed by saving leftover buffs for next session. Spend time to get buffs, play for 40 mins, log off and get 2 hours of buffs next day. It would not only let players control their play time better but also make personal buff slaves near your farming spot less important. A hike to your favourite buffers will be a better option if you know that buff can be used to it's fullest.

[Drakathos]

Now buffs can expire after character is logged off. That makes combat activity unsuitable for short sessions. Most fights absolutely require full buffs and it takes 10-20 mins to get ready for fight. It's supposed to be offset by long buffs duration - 15 mins to get buffs and about 3 hours to use them but with short play sessions buffs take significant part of play time. If I got 1 hour to play before sleep, spending 15mins every day to get buffed is a waste. It makes game unfriendly for players with limited time.

It can be easily fixed by saving leftover buffs for next session. Spend time to get buffs, play for 40 mins, log off and get 2 hours of buffs next day. It would not only let players control their play time better but also make personal buff slaves near your farming spot less important. A hike to your favourite buffers will be a better option if you know that buff can be used to it's fullest.

I see your point here but there's a problem with this approach, it would make this game go towards solo play even more than it is now and also would make camping of high end npcs with several hour spawn timers so much easier.

[Maldred]

I understand the issues with limited playtime. RL has always been a pain in the ass where gaming is concerned. Buffs used to end upon logout. If memory serves they were changed here because of the 2 hour server resets. Someone please let me know if my memory is accurate.

My opinion is buffs should not be frozen for the reasons mentioned above. They are a big part of the economy. I'd also go as far to suggest they completely expire after 15-30 minutes of being logged out. Since the dawn of SWG players relied on docs and ents to give them what they need to be as effective as possible. They are not mandatory. They are a luxury that has become necessary over the years. We depend on them because they are there and easily accessible.

To change that would undermine to need for docs and ents to set up shop and offer their services. Hell, with 10 slots one could grind their own doc/ent and park them wherever they want. It does not take 15 minutes to get buffed up unless you are including travel times to and from your grind area. For instance, if you are grinding on Danthomir, why not park your ent and doc in the cantina at one of the outposts?

[SWGPerkins]

My opinion is buffs should not be frozen for the reasons mentioned above. They are a big part of the economy. I'd also go as far to suggest they completely expire after 15-30 minutes of being logged out.

Agreed - the 15-30 minute buffer would allow for situations where you need to softlog or hardlog because of synching issues.

[Anlbrd]

I understand the issues with limited playtime. RL has always been a pain in the ass where gaming is concerned. Buffs used to end upon logout. If memory serves they were changed here because of the 2 hour server resets. Someone please let me know if my memory is accurate.

My opinion is buffs should not be frozen for the reasons mentioned above. They are a big part of the economy. I'd also go as far to suggest they completely expire after 15-30 minutes of being logged out. Since the dawn of SWG players relied on docs and ents to give them what they need to be as effective as possible. They are not mandatory. They are a luxury that has become necessary over the years. We depend on them because they are there and easily accessible.

To change that would undermine to need for docs and ents to set up shop and offer their services. Hell, with 10 slots one could grind their own doc/ent and park them wherever they want. It does not take 15 minutes to get buffed up unless you are including travel times to and from your grind area. For instance, if you are grinding on Danthomir, why not park your ent and doc in the cantina at one of the outposts?

The player who needs this implementing is, coincidentally, the player who doesn't have the time to grind their own ent/doc and craft buffs :p Shocker! haha

I can understand the frustration of shorter gaming sessions and the needs for buffs, but as others have already said the wheels of commerce are what keep the whole game in motion. Inconvenience is as vital a mechanic here as the combat engine or the Bazaar. Without the consequence of things being inconvenient of time-consuming, the wheels fall off entirely.

A way of ameliorating these issues for yourself would be to base yourself from somewhere that consistently has doc/ent buffers active in your timezone. For me personally the grinding could be a lot better elsewhere but I chose Tusken's bane mainly because I can rely on Arykha and Dathine being there 90% of the time when I need them (and because the mall is well stocked).

[Maldred]

I understand the issues with limited playtime. RL has always been a pain in the ass where gaming is concerned. Buffs used to end upon logout. If memory serves they were changed here because of the 2 hour server resets. Someone please let me know if my memory is accurate.

My opinion is buffs should not be frozen for the reasons mentioned above. They are a big part of the economy. I'd also go as far to suggest they completely expire after 15-30 minutes of being logged out. Since the dawn of SWG players relied on docs and ents to give them what they need to be as effective as possible. They are not mandatory. They are a luxury that has become necessary over the years. We depend on them because they are there and easily accessible.

To change that would undermine to need for docs and ents to set up shop and offer their services. Hell, with 10 slots one could grind their own doc/ent and park them wherever they want. It does not take 15 minutes to get buffed up unless you are including travel times to and from your grind area. For instance, if you are grinding on Danthomir, why not park your ent and doc in the cantina at one of the outposts?

The player who needs this implementing is, coincidentally, the player who doesn't have the time to grind their own ent/doc and craft buffs :p Shocker! haha

I can understand the frustration of shorter gaming sessions and the needs for buffs, but as others have already said the wheels of commerce are what keep the whole game in motion. Inconvenience is as vital a mechanic here as the combat engine or the Bazaar. Without the consequence of things being inconvenient of time-consuming, the wheels fall off entirely.

A way of ameliorating these issues for yourself would be to base yourself from somewhere that consistently has doc/ent buffers active in your timezone. For me personally the grinding could be a lot better elsewhere but I chose Tusken's bane mainly because I can rely on Arykha and Dathine being there 90% of the time when I need them (and because the mall is well stocked).

True, to a point but luckily a good portion of both grinds can be done afk via macros if need be. It will take some extra time but it's up to the player to decide if it's worth it. Aside from that, your suggestion of finding a town to grind out of that has these amenities would be the next best bet.

[Atis]

They are not mandatory. They are a luxury that has become necessary over the years.

If they became necessity they ARE mandatory, that's what necessity means. Buffed and unbuffed combat characters won't play together, they simply can't face same enemy.

Since the dawn of SWG players relied on docs and ents

Most reliable docs and ents are afkers with 24/7 macro or your own alts. When was the time you saw actively playing full time ent? these professions are pretty much reduced to player-owned NPCs, like vendors in houses. So what's a point to make players even more dependent on NPCs by keeping buff system more convoluted than needed while scaring away most players who can't play for 3 hours straight??

For instance, if you are grinding on Danthomir, why not park your ent and doc in the cantina at one of the outposts?

Because I want to play MMO with humans and not my alts. Already limited playtime not only increase already big enough gap between players who can use 3h buffs effectively and those who don't, but also FORCES me to make my own buffers to keep them close all the time. If I'd want to play solo, I'd play any MMO out there, most of them are single player oriented anyway. Buffs and exp systems make SWG more antisocial MMO than average wow-clone. There player has no need for others most of time and here player is prevented from playing with people most of time.

More of it, its also a question of equal payout for equal efforts. Players who already are more effective simply with more time invested in game, also get good 3h buffs, while less hardcore crowd gets 1h or 2h buffs for same time and money.

When I log on and there is group who might be interested in more people (rarity, I know) I cant just join, because they are buffed VIPs and I'm unbuffed peasant. I need to make sacrifice to Timewasting Gods and take a hike to cantina even if I was buffed right before logging out. Or to dark Singleplay Gods and drag slavebuffers with me. Anything to avoid just playing with people on every opportunity (perversion in the eyes of majority of players here).

but as others have already said the wheels of commerce are what keep the whole game in motion

How much players from your guild play together (not in solo group, really together)? Zero? That's how well wheels of commerce work by reducing multiplayer part of game to market. Typical party is afk entertainer, mostly afk doctor and bunch of loners running around independently. Maybe game is somehow not perfect and some things can be changed?

it would make this game go towards solo play even more than it is now

how exactly? Now buffed and unbuffed players won't bother to play together, power gap is huge. And since pretty much everyone is buffed, unbuffed player has no place in party. Why force unbuffed state more often than it should be? There are plenty limitations already.

[Lasod]

this style complaint is the same complaint that led to the NGE

pre CU is Pre CU, this is the game, you can Play the high DPS or the strong Tank or a blend that lands you anywhere in the middle but the full 30v30 pvp that happened in the NGE wont exist here until its commonplace to play buffed where the value of resources so low that the cost of losing buffs is insignificant and its just a time sink.

the majority of the 10k+ players on Awakening cant just thrown around 500k credits every few days to gear up to be viable against jedi in PVP even as a group. the 50 loudest voices on the forum are asking for changes that the majority of players haven't even gotten enough time or credits to attempt to play at to form an opinion of how awakening has been set up for endgame.

when the resource market drops to 1 cpu or lower and you will see a more active PVP game. the Devs dont have to do anything. as more good spawns come around the market will correct itself. the real adjustments IMO will come with how to improve on the annoying time sink that comes with getting ready to play and TBH i feel its just an ajdustment to speed caps on ent and medic buff timers. leave the base as is but allow CA's and AA's and food to alow near instant rebuffs IMO preferably if the adjustments mean that the player buffing has to be ATK

[Atis]

this style complaint is the same complaint that led to the NGE

pre CU is Pre CU, this is the game, you can Play the high DPS or the strong Tank or a blend that lands you anywhere in the middle but the full 30v30 pvp that happened in the NGE wont exist here until its commonplace to play buffed where the value of resources so low that the cost of losing buffs is insignificant and its just a time sink.

the majority of the 10k+ players on Awakening cant just thrown around 500k credits every few days to gear up to be viable against jedi in PVP even as a group. the 50 loudest voices on the forum are asking for changes that the majority of players haven't even gotten enough time or credits to attempt to play at to form an opinion of how awakening has been set up for endgame.

when the resource market drops to 1 cpu or lower and you will see a more active PVP game. the Devs dont have to do anything. as more good spawns come around the market will correct itself. the real adjustments IMO will come with how to improve on the annoying time sink that comes with getting ready to play and TBH i feel its just an ajdustment to speed caps on ent and medic buff timers. leave the base as is but allow CA's and AA's and food to alow near instant rebuffs IMO preferably if the adjustments mean that the player buffing has to be ATK

Complains about extra obstacles to social play led to NGE? Does Smedly know about that?

I'm sorry to break it to you but there are no 10k Awakening players and there no special game. It's 1k active players, 2k at best, and game is SWG with longer jedi grind and it's going to be played like low-pop SWG with less jedi, so no need to wait and see how something pans out.

I'd agree that faster buffs (and making camps a proper buff grounds) would help a bit but not forcing players to reapply buffs to play for 1h would help even more. Both changes would be welcome.

Parts about gear and resources costs require extra explanation, I don't see how they related to short play sessions or social aspect of parties.

[Maldred]

Bottom line here is this game is a time sink. I'll be 100% honest with you and tell you the issue here is you and your available playtime. Not the game.

The game mechanics in place have been this way for the last 13+ years across live and multiple EMU's. Being a Vet you knew this coming in. I can sympathize with your plight and I fully understand about not having the time to dedicate to the game as I did 13 years ago. Truth is, we have options. Option A is to play the game as it is because it will not be changing to accommodate you, me or anyone else until such time as the devs see fit. We adapt to the server. The server does not adapt to us. Option B is to straight up deal with it as best you can. If the game no longer complies with your current RL obligations then it may be time to step away until such time as you are able to play the game as intended.

From your line of reasoning what will happen after you are all levelled up and fully templated? Will you then come on here cry foul that since you only have an hour to play you should be able to be ported directly to the Acklay? or the Overlord? or the NS Stronghold or any other end game content you deem impossible because you have time constraints?

Let's face it, 1 hour of playtime will not get your through the geo cave or DWB even if you entered the game fully buffed and were placed on the doorstep with all your friends.

[Atis]

How exactly game EXTRA punishing low playtime is my problem? if i play 1h and some guy plays 4h he already advances faster, whats a point to punish me MORE by making me visit cantina more often?

Game was broken hot mess 13 years ago for business reasons, now we have non-commercial servers and game is broken hot mess because of fanatical purists who aggressively object to every change. While devs cant fix everything, mitigating many issues with small fixes is very possible.

Server can adapt to players, that's the reason Suggestion section exists. What is a reason why every suggestion should meet with "game is provided as is, adapt or perish" attitude? Do you yourself even know what is a goal of your "Such is life in SWGawe" prayer? You are not contributing to discussion by just stating how things are now.

From your line of reasoning what will happen after things wont be like now? Will you then come on here cry foul that since you spent hours, rejecting changes, they should not happen? That playing with alive humans should always be discouraged like now because your idea of making buff slaves would look unreasonable otherwise?

Let's face it, I never mentioned geo cave or DWB or any end game content at all, you just brought it to pick on poster instead of idea in post.

[southfrance]

No offense but you seem to be the only one in support of this judging by responses so far in this thread. And while I get where you are coming from, I think you are missing a big picture view. Implementing your idea will absolutely lead to spawn camping of the high end bosses by individuals and/or guilds. What is gonna happen when 1 person (or group) is in control of all the Acklay bones, NS motors, etc? Jack up prices of all the high end weapons and such ala Martin Shkreli. I don't want to even picture how toxic that can/will turn the community. This in top of the trickle down it will also have on Docs/Ents. And I don't care of most of them are AFK.

So while I appreciate your plight - yeah there are times I jump through the necessary hoops to get buffs and then bam RL calls and have wished my buffs were still there when I get back - I can't support this idea. and frankly there seem to be Docs everywhere now. Most cantinas running solo grps have at least 1 there. There are generally a couple at major star ports espc CNet.... So hey you missed shuttle but you can at least get buffed while you wait the 5m out. So it really isn't THAT much of a time sink frankly

Oh and last point.... Small dev team working for free on donated time. Only so much they can fix. I would 100x over rather see them devote their limited time to fixing real issues or adding/updating new content than spending time to fix something that only seems to be an issue for a very small minority.

[Pyrozest]

I would say just make your own buffers. it takes time but worth it.

[Royan]

How exactly game EXTRA punishing low playtime is my problem? if i play 1h and some guy plays 4h he already advances faster, whats a point to punish me MORE by making me visit cantina more often?

Game was broken hot mess 13 years ago for business reasons, now we have non-commercial servers and game is broken hot mess because of fanatical purists who aggressively object to every change. While devs cant fix everything, mitigating many issues with small fixes is very possible.

Server can adapt to players, that's the reason Suggestion section exists. What is a reason why every suggestion should meet with "game is provided as is, adapt or perish" attitude? Do you yourself even know what is a goal of your "Such is life in SWGawe" prayer? You are not contributing to discussion by just stating how things are now.

From your line of reasoning what will happen after things wont be like now? Will you then come on here cry foul that since you spent hours, rejecting changes, they should not happen? That playing with alive humans should always be discouraged like now because your idea of making buff slaves would look unreasonable otherwise?

Let's face it, I never mentioned geo cave or DWB or any end game content at all, you just brought it to pick on poster instead of idea in post.

The reason that everyone is bringing up Geo and DWB is because if buffs were maintained like you suggested, people would 24/7 camp it and what has been mentioned previously by Southfrance would happen. Unfortunately for you, MMOs are about a massive amount of players - not just yourself. Game design needs to be balanced between individual experience and server experience. In your case, 1h is your limitation and you either need to just deal with that limitation or move on. MMOs, especially SWG, literally cannot be balanced around the expectation of people playing 1h a day without entirely ruining any depth of content.

[Atis]

No offense but you seem to be the only one in support of this judging by responses so far in this thread. And while I get where you are coming from, I think you are missing a big picture view. Implementing your idea will absolutely lead to spawn camping of the high end bosses by individuals and/or guilds. What is gonna happen when 1 person (or group) is in control of all the Acklay bones, NS motors, etc? Jack up prices of all the high end weapons and such ala Martin Shkreli. I don't want to even picture how toxic that can/will turn the community. This in top of the trickle down it will also have on Docs/Ents. And I don't care of most of them are AFK.

And how exactly freezing buffs timer would make possible things, which are impossible now? Guild can camp with or without freezing timers, rebuff is not a problem for a grinding team. One player cant sit on spot 24/7. So how freezing timers gonna change that?

How exactly is this hurting afk docs/ents? everybody here are telling me that serious players either got their own slave buffers or play many hours straight, so they will need same rebuffs as now.

You say you care about poor docs/ents, yet you are ok with them being reduced to buffbots? How does that even fit?

So it really isn't THAT much of a time sink frankly

Get to starport doors without looking in game this day, check time, get full buffs, check time again. Yep, its that much of a time sink.

Oh and last point.... Small dev team working for free on donated time. Only so much they can fix. I would 100x over rather see them devote their limited time to fixing real issues or adding/updating new content than spending time to fix something that only seems to be an issue for a very small minority.

Its' small minority because they quit game that screws them for not living inside game. They quit because players here recommend to make 10 toons right away and play MMORPG solo. Allowing players with limited time to play this game without UNNECESSARY bumps means more people, much more, since such players are majority. Nolifers with 4h+ per day playtime can't be numerous. Now tell me that population is not a real issue, much more important issue than 147th piece of content.

The reason that everyone is bringing up Geo and DWB is because if buffs were maintained like you suggested, people would 24/7 camp it and what has been mentioned previously by Southfrance would happen. Unfortunately for you, MMOs are about a massive amount of players - not just yourself. Game design needs to be balanced between individual experience and server experience. In your case, 1h is your limitation and you either need to just deal with that limitation or move on. MMOs, especially SWG, literally cannot be balanced around the expectation of people playing 1h a day without entirely ruining any depth of content.

People who can camp it 24/7 do that with freezing buffs or without. they dont? well, maybe its not buff that holds them.
MMOs can be balanced around several playstyles, narrow-minded player can't. While Southfrance is afraid of community turning toxic because of expensive drop, it's already toxic because of elitist mindset. 90% of buffers are bots? That's how we do things, deal with it. Players are punished for playing together? You'll have some minor grouping in high-end locations later, screw rest of the game. players with limited time get shafted by game on every step? It's MLG pro game, 30+ hour per week or GTFO. Most new players who was added to my guild and friendlist in last few days stopped playing after few hours? I'm sure local elite got solid explanation for that too, like "noobs were not dedicated enough to survive our pseudohardmode" or something.

[southfrance]

Ok chief. You have been here 10 days and have contributed to 2 threads complaining about buffs and everyone that has opposed your view you have attacked as being closed minded, elitist, purist whatever... So I ask you this? What specifically are you trying to do now that you can't accomplish in the current environment. You obviously aren't doing Geo or DWB bc by your response above you apparently think that content can be done without buffs. Even with buffs you are not going to be doing DWB and such in an hour (unless that is a future topic for you - complaining that stuff is too hard). Are you grinding lairs? You surely can get a good session in during an hour. Krayts? You can take a couple down in an hour. PvP? You can surely PvP in an hour.

So please inform all us evil elitist purists what we are hindering. Maybe if you actually gave more information on what you are trying to accomplish and can't your posts wouldn't seem so trollish. Until you can provide more substance I see no reason to label these threads anything but troll bait

Good day

[Maldred]

So please inform all us evil elitist purists what we are hindering. Maybe if you actually gave more information on what you are trying to accomplish and can't your posts wouldn't seem so trollish. Until you can provide more substance I see no reason to label these threads anything but troll bait

I wrote this person off as a troll after his last response to my post. We've all said our peace and for the most part are in disagreement with the original suggestion. Which is how things go sometimes. If the OP would just accept that, point the finger of blame at his personal issue of playtime and see it for what it is we would not have to be subject to his crap.

From my observation if he spent as much time in game playing as intended instead of coming here trolling he'd be buffed and on his way to do whatever he pleases in game unhindered.

Time to lock this down as I think whatever shred of usefulness it had is long gone.

[Starhunter]

I wrote this person off as a troll after his last response to my post.

Imperial Intelligence Dossier
Subject: Atis
Species: Ugnaught
Posts: 8

Assessment: All 8 posts are constituted by this thread and the Buff Anywhere Ents thread and are exclusively ranting how the game (and therefore server's) mechanics are terrible and how the community is wrong. Terminate with extreme prejudice.

[Royan]

Don't play on the server then. I'm not going to debate your purist/elitist shit because it doesn't matter in the larger sense. If we're all huge assholes crusading to make your life hell, leave the server. It's not worth your frustration. If you don't leave, deal with it and stop acting like a petulant child. We've all been more polite than Cynar or Ed would've been about this if they cared to respond to your ranting and raging.

[Anlbrd]

Well which is it?

You want players to HAVE TO group up and there to be more social aspect to the game, instead of a solo grindfest - BUT - you're bitching about the set-up time associated with buffing.

Have you actually thought about the 'set up time' in finding a group when population fluctuates and with players' timezones varying :/

Like others have started to say. This just smacks of pointless bitching.

[edit] and trust me : given your Asbergic approach to conversation, your finding-a-group set up time would be significant.