Do the dev's actually see suggestions that get deleted?

[armilus]

I made a post on the suggestion forum last night and by this morning it was deleted. I really don't care that it was deleted because I did not post it so we could have a flame war on the forums, I posted it because I think it is a legitimate concern and valuable no bullshit feedback for the dev's. So this leads to my current question, did the dev's actually see it or did one CSR see it and immediately delete it?

If the dev's actually did see it, I have additional ideas that would ensure that things are still difficult while keeping a players fate in their own hands.

If no dev's have any idea what I am talking about then I guess an over zealous CSR deleted the post before anyone else could see it and I'm not going to put in the time to re-write the long ass and thoughtful post because I really don't have time.

[Royan]

I saw the post and I can pretty much guarantee it was deleted because of how you phrased it rather than the content. If you want a discussion to start, it's a lot more helpful to make your posts in a neutral tone than the accusatory/inflammatory one you tend to go with. The issue you brought up is genuinely something to be considered imo but it's all about how you present your argument/concerns.

[lassic]

I am fairly certain, at least I have been told this is what happens by a CSR, that it is moved to a "deleted post" (or something) forums for the devs to look at or refer to. Regardless, the idea of straight censorship, is a problem.

[Xiphos]

Royan pretty much nailed it but yes, it was read. Staff has access to threads which are removed.

[StepoKedur]

Also, to add to Royan's comments, if a polite suggestion or comment is made and a plausible solution is presented (the easier the better) I reckon it would have an even better chance of staying up.

If someone does not like X and says:

'X is crap! Fix it! NOW!!!111!11!!!', then it is hardly constructive. (Just in general, not necessarily yourself).

If someone says:

'X seems a little off, because <stuff and things> but maybe <this happening may fix it> could fix things, but I could settle for <that being done and this is how as it's easier to implement> at the moment as there are not many coding staff. then it could start a debate on tweaking things, as long as it matches the dev's vision of the server.

That is, no free stuff and no easy way...and NO ewoks in hawtpants (now try to UNSEE that image!'

You're welcome

[armilus]

I saw the post and I can pretty much guarantee it was deleted because of how you phrased it rather than the content. If you want a discussion to start, it's a lot more helpful to make your posts in a neutral tone than the accusatory/inflammatory one you tend to go with. The issue you brought up is genuinely something to be considered imo but it's all about how you present your argument/concerns.

I agree that tone is very important and in this case it was deliberate and it was part of the message. As I said in the above post, I made the post as a communication to the dev's, not to start a discussion/flame war.

There is nothing wrong with removing posts from public view but you can't ignore feedback just because you don't like the tone. It is something I am slightly pissed off about and I wished to communicate that, I believe that was successful.

[armilus]

Also, to add to Royan's comments, if a polite suggestion or comment is made and a plausible solution is presented (the easier the better) I reckon it would have an even better chance of staying up.

If someone does not like X and says:

'X is crap! Fix it! NOW!!!111!11!!!', then it is hardly constructive. (Just in general, not necessarily yourself).

If someone says:

'X seems a little off, because <stuff and things> but maybe <this happening may fix it> could fix things, but I could settle for <that being done and this is how as it's easier to implement> at the moment as there are not many coding staff. then it could start a debate on tweaking things, as long as it matches the dev's vision of the server.

That is, no free stuff and no easy way...and NO ewoks in hawtpants (now try to UNSEE that image!'

You're welcome

I know you are trying to be helpful, and it doesn't look like you saw the post I am talking about in this thread, so I won't hold it against you but I actually found this post to be quite condescending and passive aggressive. (Thought I would mention it since we are talking about tone)

[Cynar]

I just read it and it was crap. That's why it got deleted. Full of misinformation and the sky is going to
fall rhetoric. Angry internet nerdisms compilation 2.0

[armilus]

I just read it and it was crap. That's why it got deleted. Full of misinformation and the sky is going to
fall rhetoric. Angry internet nerdisms compilation 2.0

I think it's great that the staff here hold themselves to a higher standard than what they expect from their community. It's a sign of true professionalism and integrity.

Seriously though, I'm sorry you don't like feedback. I got the message loud and clear, like everything we do or get the fuck out.

[Xiphos]

You don't have to like his characterization, but your deleted suggestion thread had several half-truths and was incorrect in expression of the mechanic. Visibility isn't a state secret, but it's also something staff won't spell out details of on the forums.

If you want to make a suggestion, make one (like you did in the second thread) and it will get due consideration. If you prefer to spin tales of imminent destruction or take your ball and go home, the suggestions thread isn't the place. But I waste my breath, because you already know this.

[Cynar]

I think it's great that the staff here hold themselves to a higher standard than what they expect from their community. It's a sign of true professionalism and integrity.

Seriously though, I'm sorry you don't like feedback. I got the message loud and clear, like everything we do or get the fuck out.

There's two different types of feedback. One which has a positive tone and helpful information. Then there's feedback that's just bad noise. You have to understand when you start adding in statements like people are going to leave or the server will die, well then it's all the same random noise we've heard time and time again. Oh wait, damn Awakening is still here. Guess maybe all those dozens of people who have made that same claim were wrong.

As far as professionalism goes that would imply people here are being paid. They aren't so drop the same old tired bullshit. As far as integrity goes you need to learn to dictionary before using words you don't know the meaning of. Only two members of our staff in our history lacked integrity and they are long gone.

You don't like being told your feedback sucks, provide better feedback.

[Fenrir]

You don't have to like his characterization, but your deleted suggestion thread had several half-truths and was incorrect in expression of the mechanic. Visibility isn't a state secret, but it's also something staff won't spell out details of on the forums.

If you want to make a suggestion, make one (like you did in the second thread) and it will get due consideration. If you prefer to spin tales of imminent destruction or take your ball and go home, the suggestions thread isn't the place. But I waste my breath, because you already know this.

I didn't create the second thread. A CSR copied and heavily edited a post that I made in this thread. I deleted that thread because someone created a post under my name but it wasn't my words.

I want to make one thing clear. I did decide to stop playing here, I deleted all my characters and changed the email on my account to something random; however, I did NOT do this because of anything said by Xiphos or Cynar. I did it because I've given up on this community. I've never before been considered an asshole or flamer in any community or guild that I've been a part of in 15 years of online gaming. Yet here, that seems to be the over whelming view of my character. When I made my FIRST post on these forums it was already in defense of my character because I already had this bad reputation. I've NEVER been rude or disrespectful to anyone in-game. When my guild was in the middle of a feud/flame war with another guild, I saw players from that guild in-game while they were in a bad situation and about to die (on two separate occasions), do you know what I did? I HELPED them.

I hate drama, nothing can ruin the fun of a game more than drama but with this community, it's inescapable. I am leaving this server because I don't really expect the community to change, nor should it. You have enough people here to keep the server running and they like to push out anyone that isn't the same personality type as them. If that makes this a better place to play for them, then that's fine. I hope you all still enjoy playing here and continue to do so for a long time, this just isn't the right community for me.

-Armilus / Fenrir (Former Nostalrius developer)

[Xiphos]

I disagree wholeheartedly on your assessment of the community, but to each his own. Awakening isn't a fit for everyone. Best of luck in your ventures.

[Cynar]

It really saddens me to see anyone leave. Some people just can't play nice with others and need to leave. To each his own. We do what we do and play who we want to play with. Just remember it takes both sides for it to be drama. Even if one person is the bigger queen. That's not directed at anyone, just a simple life observance. Can't have factions without disagreement. Just leave it at Star Wars when you login and have fun being that Star Wars persona. After all it is a online role playing game.

[royalbratt]

Cynar... your priceless. *shakes head*
Might I suggest Diplomacy 101? lol

Brutally honest ... to the point.... even when that point draws blood.


I can say first hand they listen, when we talk. You can't put something down and not try to better it in the same breath. That is just asking for a negative reaction.