So these temps copied and pasted from other threads

[Celt]

It's more like most people runaway because they don't like getting killed and losing frs points. Just like in live you have to chase down the people who say they like to pvp, but they really only like winning at pvp. Then there's the Jedi who can't solo pvp. They only get brave when the odds favor it and once again it becomes a chase fest, just reverse the direction.

Soooo accurate.

[AScic1]

It's more like most people runaway because they don't like getting killed and losing frs points. Just like in live you have to chase down the people who say they like to pvp, but they really only like winning at pvp. Then there's the Jedi who can't solo pvp. They only get brave when the odds favor it and once again it becomes a chase fest, just reverse the direction.

Ultimately having FR2 or not in your build will all come down to what the +/- will be for killing/killed. As it sits right now in the current Awakening environment, you probably won't face less than 2 or 3 BH at any one time. If you have a reputation for being tough to kill *cough* xman *cough*, it'll look more like 5 BH, once the FRS is implemented, a gaggle of Jedi won't be far behind. If you're not a select few on this server, your best option is to always run. Without the FRS, there is no reward to stand and fight as a Jedi, just consequences.

And while 5 BH's are allowed to gank the same target, running will continue to be a trend until the system is changed.

[bobaphat]

FR2 is just as essentially to earning FRS as it is to avoiding FRS loss. You will need to chase and drain opposing Jedi, without at least FR2, you won't be able to be a part of those engagements and thus won't earn FRS.

[kithsyn]

Cool.

Does anyone have thoughts about going MEnhancer? Say for example, MLS, MEnhancer, Healer 4004

[Royan]

It's fine, but there are a lot of wasted points imo. It basically all comes down to how much you value FR3 since the resist line is broken and xxx3-4 aren't great. More controversially, I'm of the opinion that you only need FR1 but most people will probably prefer having FR2.

You can probably figure out my build based upon that commentary

[kithsyn]

So that's a fact, the Enhance Resist line is broken and/or not working as intended, that what you're saying?

[Royan]

To my knowledge that is still the case.

[StepoKedur]

It WAS at least working in the last few days of pub 8 on test centre...

[kithsyn]

Ah, I see. Do we have any enhancers out there that confirm or deny?

[Kelec]

Regardless of bias, FR2 does give players a decent retreat mechanism. It's expected that even with tweaks preserving your FRS xp is going to extremely important, so getting yourself into fun but not necessarily even or favorable situations isn't going to do you any favors as far as maintaining rank. Pack hunting/jedi groups basically become meta. Builds that are capable of holding there own vs multiple targets and have functional escape are really your only option. Of course if you don't want to join the FRS and just want to be a PVE hero, the world is your playground.

Anyways on the point of the topic, enhancer wont be only meta but it will be a popular one. It will die off quick if bhs get any abilities that can strip FR.

[kithsyn]

Good to know.

How about others? How about vanilla build mentioned in OP?

[Kelec]

Good to know.

How about others? How about vanilla build mentioned in OP?

Which are you asking about specifically. A lot can be said about jedi trees but the reality is that in order to be/stay competitive some skills are absolutely must haves. If your end goal is PVP and you think you can get away with any build because robe, you're in for a bad time. That being said, the single greatest tanking stat for jedi is LS toughness which makes the MLS box a must have in any build for pvp or pve. Outside of that sustain becomes next most important, so 4xx4 in healer and xxx2 in enhancer are also musts to keep you healthy, standing, and gaining force.

From this point forward it is a matter of preference. You have the best tanking/dps skills the class has to offer and you have acceptable sustain.

Defender is going to offer you more innate defense vs non jedi targets (pvp&pve) but it doesn't scale well in FRS, defenders are currently the most tanky of all the builds bhs have to fight. Defenders are naturally harder to state from the xxx4 line however it doesn't really shine since we don't have the skill tapes to push the resist line to a decent level. Similarly the melee/ranged defense lines help mostly in PVP, they scale better than the xx44 lines simply because melee/ranged defense roll vs acc before damage, they are not useful in pve for the most part as high end mobs have acc to overcome the hit ratio.

M Healer gives a great skill at master, total heal self. It's the premier healing skill basically restoring you completely on use except for states, its force cost is dependent on the amount of healing necessary. I'm not entirely sure the cap on THS on this server though I have used it on others to heal for over 3k to all pools. MH gives very nice support healing as well, total heal other is invaluable in groups. FRS Mhealers do get to tap into force control and manipulation which does wonders for increasing effectiveness of overall healing (IE they become much more efficient with rank)

Powers is supposed to be a glass canon tree however it is still in need of some extreme tuning. It has the least tank of all of the trees offering only force intim to counter incoming damage. FI2 (force intim 2) is wonderful vs a BH if you can get it off before he traps you, but struggles vs jedi due to clear states. KD3 from the master box is extremely reliable, solid for getting a ranged target on the ground. Lightning has had a pass over and is now LS damage changed from Electric so it does more meaningful damage to player but cost much more force than top tier LS skills like Dervish 2. Choke is laughable as far as damage is concerned, and offers 0 state effects for an extremely high force cost. Not sure if the animal handling line even has code written for it here yet. EMU finished it about 2 months back so that may have been addressed. Powers has its own multiplier in the FRS, some have hopes that the tweaks for this tree will be addressed before or at FRS release so that the spec is more viable. Powers is the only tree that has it damage modified based on FRS rank.

Enhancer bring the most well rounded kit to FRS jedi. Using force manipulation and force control in the FRS, FA1 and FA2 lower the cost of damage mitigation while also increasing its total overall effect. Someone else would have to provide you exact percentages as I don't have them handed at time of writing this, but I can tell you a rank 5 or 6 FRS knight using FA2 is going to be a hell of alot more tanky than any defender you run into. The resistance line is also modified by FRS, though I dont think the bonus is notable for those skills until extremely highly ranked. The FR line has its merits for obvious reason, enhancers are most notably known for speed tanks (ie getting in and out of things fast with FR2 or 3). Enhancer is also a direct counter to anything powers with the use of absorb/feedback any damaging force powers cast at you give you a portion of force back and reflect the damage back at the attacker.

Current meta here on awakening mostly favor defender as the damage BH do is extremely high. Healer has some place though you can be overcome quickly without the jedi toughness when more than 1 hunter comes. Powers is laughable vs more than 1 target. Its high force costs and skill delays limit it greatly. I personally have noticed more enhancers showing up, mostly I expect due to the FRS hints over the last several months.

Final note - double masters do get a minor bonus as far as SP spent vs force power gained is concerned, a double master, MLS/MH/4xx2 enhancer, will have about 500 more force than a MLS/4xx4healer/4xx2 enhancer/24xx defender for example. 6500 vs 6k.

Happy to answer question about skills if this doesn't cover what your looking for.

[Royan]

Since Odr gave a lot of good general insight, I guess I should stop being lazy and give feedback specifically to the temp I commented on as vanilla, to which is what I think you were referring:

mls/4xx4 heals / 2xx3 enh /44xx def

Pretty solid for PvE. It's not as good as defender centric templates, but better than enh/powers, and I haven't been mhealer on this server to judge how they manage. I would guess that mhealer temps are maybe a little bit better but that's just an educated guess.

BH PvP you'll handle a single BH just fine but have worse than average chances vs 2+

Normal PvP useful but not especially noteworthy in comparison to more specialized builds (comparing vs Mhealer support, Powers aoe forced KD/intim, Defender being functionally invulnerable for 6m+)

Jedi vs Jedi - who cares, Jedi suck at killing other Jedi for the most part in the current environment

[Mudkipz]

Master defender is really helpful for the fact that you have AI which you want for high end mobs because of spike damage. I played mls mhealer 4002 0040 powers before the village was released and having intimidate/weaken was amazing but i know you can't do it anymore so it would drop to mls m healer 4xx4 enh which gives you drain + meditate which is big in pvp. I'd run full Health action mind mitigation get fully buffed and full heal all will fully heal you regardless of having like 6k+ HAM.

Honestly with decay of pearls i've never really liked jedi in PVE. Xman makes it work but xman also has enough money to tip 1m everytime he gets a dance buff so -9's are nothing to him .

There isn't a mob ingame that can't be killed if you dual log a squad leader for burst run and a rifleman/cm *dots to drop resists, rifleman for damage* but jedi isn't the worst it's just kinda awful in the fact that here tons of mobs have light saber resist.

As royan said jedi vs jedi is a little bit of a long fight so I would always dual box my BH+ my jedi to kill imperial jedi was more fun that way get them in a trap saber throw to kd and blow them away with dervish+fast blasting bh macro.

[kithsyn]

Great posts, Odr & Royan.

So you've seen more Mehancers lately it sounds.

Thanks.

[kithsyn]

Curious, are there any MEnhancers/MLS that could speak to their contentment of their build and why?

[Celt]

And while 5 BH's are allowed to gank the same target, running will continue to be a trend until the system is changed.

Jedi run when its 2 v 1. We bring 5 to add dps and to counter the running, seems to work well enough. What gets me is jedi run when we come deep and act like we have some obligation to be honorable and fight 1 v 1 like gladiators. Of course when we do come 1 v 1, they run anyway when they start losing. There are very few Jedi on this server (or any other server in my experience) who will stand their ground and can be counted on for a somewhat "honorable" fight. Xman (or is it xman again? lol), is about the only guy with the stones. Everyone else runs.

The "we wouldnt run if you came 1 v 1" is a joke. Of course you wouldnt run. Ironically, our boy Dawkta does alot of 1 v 1 fighting and STILL sees plenty of track stars. Its in the nature of the players who play Jedi. Give someone a combat-reset tool (like spies had in NGE) and they will use it whenever the tide turns. Doesnt make them cowards or anything so dramatic, but dont act like Jedi run because BH is OP and they cannot compete.

[Kelec]

but dont act like Jedi run because BH is OP and they cannot compete.

Don't get me started on this Celt. The math is not pretty as far as balance is concerned. Pack hunting is a thing simply because more LLCs on target reduces the chance to survive a trap. It's also worth noting jedi have a lot to lose from being killed.

[Celt]

The math is not pretty as far as balance is concerned. Pack hunting is a thing simply because more LLCs on target reduces the chance to survive a trap. It's also worth noting jedi have a lot to lose from being killed.

I do not disagree on either point. 1 v 1 the math is extremely skewed to the Jedi side, as you increase the numbers of hunters the math tilts the other way. I would guess 3 v 1 is about as close to 50/50 as you get, assuming common templates are in play. Once we get to 4+ hunters, we are the heavy favorites. As to your second point, you are correct. Thats the minigame.

The insinuation that Jedi only run when we come mobbed up was what I disagreed on. The typical jedi mentality is to pull out all the stops when combat turns against them. Anything goes (combat or water logging, friendly heals, friendly force and sometimes more nefarious tactics), they play to win. Like I said, give someone a combat-reset and they will use it, so I do not blame them.

Can't blame us for playing to win as well. If we have to bring 5 to complete your mission, you should take it as a compliment.

[Kelec]

The math is not pretty as far as balance is concerned. Pack hunting is a thing simply because more LLCs on target reduces the chance to survive a trap. It's also worth noting jedi have a lot to lose from being killed.

I do not disagree on either point. 1 v 1 the math is extremely skewed to the Jedi side, as you increase the numbers of hunters the math tilts the other way. I would guess 3 v 1 is about as close to 50/50 as you get, assuming common templates are in play. Once we get to 4+ hunters, we are the heavy favorites. As to your second point, you are correct. Thats the minigame.

The insinuation that Jedi only run when we come mobbed up was what I disagreed on. The typical jedi mentality is to pull out all the stops when combat turns against them. Anything goes (combat or water logging, friendly heals, friendly force and sometimes more nefarious tactics), they play to win. Like I said, give someone a combat-reset and they will use it, so I do not blame them.

Can't blame us for playing to win as well. If we have to bring 5 to complete your mission, you should take it as a compliment.

I can respect that.