Alpha class Problems

[kithsyn]

And yes some traps do more than just freeze. That's been tested.

Good thoughts, Narrk.

[skyhunter11]

Stepo,

I know the ranged reduction trap works. Don't remember what its called. Tested with master defender with +20 ranged defense, 25 ranged tapes, and 21 ranged defense boost from thunder drink.

But for a bounty hunter, it would only be useful against that kinda jedi. Most don't go in that category. But if you use that trap, you can't use the adhesive trap. The defense reduction only lasts for a short time. Bounty hunter will have to kite and take the damage. Would be very effective burst running then switching back to adhesive. Unless you run with a dual logged unattackable squadleader alt. You can kite and burst run for much longer.

Narrk.

[StepoKedur]

Thanks Narrk ...and thanks for testing matey. I personally have no idea if any traps before hand worked as they were supposed to on a player jedi. I know they freeze me...lol but that's it!

I was personally under the impression the melee one reduces the jedi's melee defence (basically a chance to have an attack miss) so it would be better for a melee attacker. Say you went in as a TKM BH3xxx or had a TKM friend with you. The melee toon should give more damage.

Same as the other one, the ranged one should reduce the ranged def on the jedi, making misses less.

I think the top end one, although a tier 3 - is supposed to root and reduce both melee and ranged defs.

Now Mr Madrox sir, you say otherwise on this currently matey...

[StepoKedur]

Narrk, hope this helps.

http://wiki.swganh.org/index.php/Glow-W ... Schematic)
This is the tier 3 glow wire trap, from this website:

http://wiki.swganh.org/index.php/Scout_ ... II_(Skill)

I THINK this is the one you lads and lasses normally use.

[bobaphat]

Some of the made proposals are simple tweaks, however most require a complete re-write of multiple professions and other systems. That's a fantasy that will never occur here, nor on most servers. Harsh reality of life, ask for what you know is potentially obtainable here.

With respect, balance as it relates to Jedi and BH is beyond simple tweaks.

In your opinion would you think that the removal of traps and fb would bring balance even if bh could still kill jedi without them?
If there is no problem to dying vs a bh i would assume its the supposed quality of the fights that doesn't sit right?

Yes.
There are plenty of places that currently do not have a buffed FB and or toughness on robes, where BH can beat Jedi 1v1 and the fight is competitive. Honestly without toughness, melee BH vs unranked Jedi, is probably just as hard a fight if not harder for the Jedi to win but at least there's a fight, especially if there is ADK. Since Awakening doesn't have ADK (thank god) it's an actual good fight. Not the "frozen for 'x' seconds and dead, or close to it, if he gets good rng" that happens on Awakening.

I don't want to get in trouble for bringing up other servers (and honestly i'm not really playing anywhere at the moment, Quake2gud) but i've got a Ranged BH on another server and a Melee BH on a third. Neither of these servers have the added toughness or fastblast changes and I am on a combined 70%+ solo kill win rate (My carbineer is actually 20-4).

As someone that spent the better part of a year on Awakening trying to develop PVP. It's my opinion that Ed has catered to BH entirely TOO much on Awakening and the entire pvp experience suffered because of it. Unfortunately I believe it's the norm now and thanks to the extremely vocal BH community, this will never change. So good luck to the pvp community here iluall.

[StepoKedur]

I wouldn't mind the small reduction using the method I show one or two pages back Danny. That way none defenders or low end defenders get a little leg up, mDefs mLS have stuff reduced a little (think of it as a top end cap) and there would be a balance.

Ypu cannot miss the post, lots of red numbers. Maybe 10 posts back?

[Madroxtheninja]

At the moment Narrk, are traps doing anything apart from freeze? Madrox tells me they barely do anything but he is being rather tight lipped about it (aren't ya Maddy!)

Are they decreasing melee or ranged defences at all?

The remove freeze as you know is something we agree on 100% as you know.

I am being tight lipped lol message me in game and I'll tell you but not putting out there for the try hards to use my tactics

[skyhunter11]

I'd have to term my jedi and get a bh volunteer to test the all the traps. I only tested the ranged defense reduction trap. Did not test the melee or the ranged/melee combo trap. Currently regrinding that jedi's template and avoiding terms. To be honest, it's not worth it, the effect does not last very long to be effective. Adhesive still rules.

Narrk

[L4TCH]

Do dual-boxing technically count as solo'ing? Two of your members recently have been regularly dispatching Jedi with their pocket TKM/CM and SL toons - a feat to be admired to be honest.

You were my first Jedi SOLO kill WITHOUT any TKM/CM or SL at the time. Did it with half the damage I have now and Burst Run food. Haven't seen you online since. Your bashing my tactic yet it doesn't give me much. It's simple, your melee, I am a range, why would i give u the advantage?

@prelate we had a ton of fun at that LORE battle a couple of weeks back but honestly man, my support team was gimp, not going to go into details, and there were several times the fight could've shifted in your favor. If I had that amount of support you had, my team would've cucked you all.

You Jedi are complaining about numbers. It's out of our hands as to how many BH's can pick ur your mission. You are making it seem as if we have a meeting to kill 1 of you when the truth is we just arrive on the scene at the same time. If it was up to me, I'd cap the bounty to 3 BHs.

Jedi should be able to invest those 24 points from FS into w/e profession they want.

I think PSGs should be nerf'd no more than 50-55%. Jedi do enough damage now vs BH so If I agree to nerf PSGs you will destroy us faster.

Group TEF is not an option as when the BH and his friends attack a Jedi, the jedi has the option to kill them.

Jedi vis needs to be increased.

Bomb droids should be working and not have a 10 sec countdown, 5 sec would be more ideal.

MBH should have a 24/7 offline status, not 3xxx BH.

Mando armor should be available to MBHs for those who put in the time like you Jedi's on your grinding.

BH should be able to hunt other player toons once they've reached a certain PvP rating (id say over 1600-1800). When that player get's a TEF or is overt, it terms them and can be hunted.

After being here for 125 days...when it comes to Jedi vs BH, don't get mad that I found something outside the box that works. Spend more time learning what's in game and making it work for you.

/getcuckedpotatoes

[L4TCH]

Here are my suggestions for improving Jedi:
-Remove the LS resists in PSGs.
-Make the pairing dual box character attackable (i.e. SL for example). Bh gets all the benefits of this, but there are no consequences.

So 0 resistance vs LS and depend on burst run food for distance but wait, I need the stomach filling for damage reduction foods and I can only burst run once because I don't dish out enough damage.

Like I said, nerf PSGs and do your research.

I am not going to discuss tactics on how to HELP a Jedi figure out ways to kill my tactic.

[Deezee32]

What was great about awakening was the time that Jedi could put all 250 skill points into Jedi skills , it gave a nice variation of builds for different types of player , a nice force pool too , a good Jedi would be able to fight for 30-40 minutes in a intense and fun battle . But you still couldn't have very skill you wanted and had to sacrifice something somewhere .

E.g. A mdef having no channel or no force run or no heal stats

There was a lot of Jedi about for bounty hunters to fight too

It would of been nice if the force sensitive skills cost 0 skill points

Once full temp all force sensitive boxes really give u is a bit more accuracy and 20 ranged /Mellee defence that's actually useful

Also
Termed Jedi House sitters who sit for hours on end being ejected or logged out after 1 hour .

[Celt]

I don't want to get in trouble for bringing up other servers (and honestly i'm not really playing anywhere at the moment, Quake2gud) but i've got a Ranged BH on another server and a Melee BH on a third. Neither of these servers have the added toughness or fastblast changes and I am on a combined 70%+ solo kill win rate (My carbineer is actually 20-4

I was going to post something similar to this when I saw Odr's post about Awakening having a reputation as a BH favored server. Just like you, I do not see that as the case. I hunt on 3 servers total, and my solo win-rate here is atrocious compared to the others. To give an example, I hunt melee on another well known server and maintain a win-rate of over 84% (I am 28-5 there) with nearly every single kill being a solo hunt.

This server is by far the most Jedi friendly where Jedi are at their strongest. For bounty hunters Awakening truly is the big leagues. Everyone else is rookie ball at best. If you can kill Jedi here, you can kill them anywhere.

[evilryu]

Yo LATCH- a feat to be admired means it's a good thing, you're being overly sensitive over nothing. PVE dual boxing can be tricky, I appreciate dual boxing PVP/BH is much harder.

As for our fight, I'll take nothing away from you - it was a good kill. My unorthodox spec (I was warned against using it) delves into powers, I have zero def boxes, from experiencing of hunting similar specs, I fully expected to be dropped in less than 10 seconds but was pleasantly surprised to last 15 mins until my force ran out. I thought we had a good fight, I spent most of the time healing the LLC (I dont know your dmg but it packed a punch) whilst trying to dizzy/KD/DPS you. I had hoped that you'd appreciate I DID NOT run into water nor did I run away, we engaged in the SP and I only FR2 300m away to try and get a terrain negotiation advantage ("it's over Anakin, I have the high ground") and then I ran at you and we fought again, this time to the death. If you ever unlock and I find out - I'll return the compliments

My Jedi is only ever used to check pearls, its not really useful for much else. For farming, all I used to do was laps of Archwitches. I farm +25 tapes and other stuff faster with my rifle/cm+SL. With BH as it is, term refreshing for hours on end hoping for someone that wasn't house sitting or log within 5 mins got really boring - as a result I've scaled back my Awakening time in recent weeks - waiting for summer to pass and the population comes back. I've been logging on to check overnight sales, harvesters and chat.

I'm not one for arguing about who or which class needs buffs or nerfs, its a complex beast - I enjoy BH (far more than Jedi) and would support all recommendations to increase participation - more Jedi = more hunting.

[Woolystyle]

Ah another wish for Cynar Clause,

Could we make force sensitive characters...termed? (Are they supposed not to be hunted? Dark Vador would not be happy in my opinion)

[davej30]

It would of been nice if the force sensitive skills cost 0 skill points

This is probably one of the better suggestions ive seen,more likely easier to code (as a guess cynar!! ) and lets be honest you guys have had it too good in the past and are used to it.This would give more power back to the Jedi,something they feel they have been lacking.

However and i am pleased some people have finally admitted it, is that a good melee bh smokes Jedi on other servers which run a more default swgemu.

As someone that spent the better part of a year on Awakening trying to develop PVP. It's my opinion that Ed has catered to BH entirely TOO much on Awakening and the entire pvp experience suffered because of it. Unfortunately I believe it's the norm now and thanks to the extremely vocal BH community, this will never change.

Free range Jedi is not the answer either,Thats the biggest rubbish ive ever heard for this game you simply cant develop PvP with Jedi involved.All that you get is a temporary spike followed by a huge dip down to levels that was worse then what is was before,until people learn to keep Jedi out of the GCW is itsnt going to happen and people wont PvP anyway as they are too busy grinding Jedi.

I never thought i would be a fan of being a ranged BH but i have really come to enjoy it here.
I am not a fan of FB being removed or set back to pistols the reason has been covered by Odr previously so i dont have to go into that,in the traps + llc thread pre pub8 i said i was willing to compromise and as a result (not because of me lol) adjustments where made.
Sill pretty ambivalent about Traps imo,they do bring more strategy to the game i will give it that,however maybe they could be adjusted?

PSG's
I currently think they are to strong and at over 60% sliced they also give me no incentive to continue after the much coveted Mando armour.
Speaking of which you can grind a couple of Jedi out easier then acquiring a suit here (mini NOT full) although id like it rare, unobtainable is something else

BH missions per Jedi
Until people learn not to be so naughty i would never advocate it being lower then 5 esp if Jedi where to return to post pub 8 settings,when 4-5 bh are involved to take down a Mdef There is less bitterness on the Jedi end.

So as i hoped in this thread so far i see there are the Jedi that can and accept they can die to bh and those that dont.
Regarding the former i would rather work with you and see if some compromises could be made,ones that the guys upstairs can code without falling into a huge black hole.

[kithsyn]

I agree that mando should be less rare...err, less impossible... than it is. That way there's incentive to grind it out and truly get a nice reward for such an achievement. But needs to be attainable...yet that's another thread.

And i'm glad that you started this thread. And to be clear, I don't mind dying, I don't mind winning, and don't mind being hunted as I have yet to run from a fight. I do realize that there are ways/strategies that I can get better on my end, learn new things, get fully taped, etc. And until then, I withhold total judgment that the system is completely borked. There are things to look into with non-Defender Jedi templates becoming more viable, reducing PSGs, and pearls in summary.

Thanks for starting this albeit a bit tongue in cheek. I think it adds to the discussion. And thanks to Cynar for participating, too.

[skyhunter11]

1. Remove fastblast ability to be used with llc, flame thrower, etc. Fastblast still can be used by rifles, pistols, and carbines. Up the damage modifier on fastblast so using those weapons are viable against jedi. Wouldn't be overkill in pve and non Jedi pvp either.

2. Change freeze effect to a simple root effect. 10 second root with 20 second cooldown.

3. Keep sprayshot the way it is, not an overpowered ability for any ranged weapons.

4. LLC Cone2 spreads damage against health action and mind. LLC single2 is random HAM hit but hits harder against a single bar than LLC cone2. For the most part it remains the same. Using the LLC specials against jedi even now is good but not as effective compared current version of fastblast. It's a short ranged but hits random HAM.

Narrk

[StepoKedur]

From the Bh side of things these seem good on the whole...

1. Remove fastblast ability to be used with llc, flame thrower, etc. Fastblast still can be used by rifles, pistols, and carbines. Up the damage modifier on fastblast so using those weapons are viable against jedi. Wouldn't be overkill in pve and non Jedi pvp either.

2. Change freeze effect to a simple root effect. 10 second root with 20 second cooldown.

3. Keep sprayshot the way it is, not an overpowered ability for any ranged weapons.

4. LLC Cone2 spreads damage against health action and mind. LLC single2 is random HAM hit but hits harder against a single bar than LLC cone2. For the most part it remains the same. Using the LLC specials against jedi even now is good but not as effective compared current version of fastblast. It's a short ranged but hits random HAM.

Narrk

I would feel (this is the logical part of me - odd in a game with space wizards) that carbines rifles and pistols that keep fast blast should have the accuracy lowered a bit. I suppose for the rifles you would be manually doing something.

Currently fastBlast is like this using normal accuracy...



If you are manually pulling the hammer back you should lose accuracy as the weapon is unsteady...maybe it burns the weapon out faster too...

(Not the most accurate gif but you get the gist of it )




Number 4, I'm quite surprised it isn't already like this. Normally specials with a random pool attack (the attacks can splash over to the other two HAM attributes as well as the main one it randomly hits) hit for higher. Dedicated HAM targetting attacks hit for lower but you know where they will go.

[StepoKedur]

Technically it's a shotgun rather than a rifle, but you can see the accuracy loss. This ain't exactly a sniper scenario



I think I may have found some new avatar forum pics for Narrk

[skyhunter11]

LLC cone2 and single2 currently hit random with splash into other two bars. Difference is one is AOE. 32 meter limit. I figure give MBH another reason to master if LLC Cone2 worked like 32 meter fastblast at a different damage modifier.

Narrk