CH observations and suggestions

[mykewlname]

I've been playing my favorite combination for a couple of months now (MCH/Mpistols) and having a blast. However I have noticed just a few things that I thought should be brought up for the DEV team to consider looking at. My apologies if these things were previously addressed.

-I've mentioned in another thread about the inability for my MCH/MPistosl toon to be able to obtain Bull Rancor missions on Dath. In a "solo group" with one AT-ST and my pets in it I still could not get these missions at Lvl 105. If I join a larger group with several NPC's in it I can get them... however I have a very difficult time completing those Lvl 153 missions on my own. In SWG Pre-CU I was able to generate Bull Rancor missions at my own level (75-80) and would ask if this could be looked at.

-In SWG Pre-CU I was able to use my pet stims to heal pets at a much greater distance without having any AA/CA modifiers. I have to practically stand on top of them to heal them in Awakenings.

-The ability for Pets to hold aggro better is also something I've read and experienced and that could use some attention.

-Pets, especially two or more of the same type, seem to position themselves in the exact same place when called and "morph" over each other. They do it when they stand next to you and when they attack targets. It was not this way in Pre-Cu. Perhaps a random x,y coordinate modifier or something could be implemented for every pet with a +/- value in order to keep them from standing right on top of each other.

Thanks for reading and a very well job done with Awakenings and the Pre-CU experience. It has been awesome.

[lassic]

- The mission level has to do with how buffed up Bulls are, here.
- heal distance... unfortunately none of the med tapes will effect that healing range.
- Pet tanking is just problematic.
- The formations are not functioning.

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7578

take a look at this thread. We had a pretty good discussion on this topic.

[CrimsonMerc]

- The mission level has to do with how buffed up Bulls are, here.
- heal distance... unfortunately none of the med tapes will effect that healing range.
- Pet tanking is just problematic.
- The formations are not functioning.

viewtopic.php?f=61&t=7578

take a look at this thread. We had a pretty good discussion on this topic.

Why would pet tanking be problematic? Fixing creature handler is actually quite easy: undo most of the pre-cu live nerf, make pets have some sort of taunt ability (tank) and make all creatures under CL 70 tamable.

[lassic]

Pets do not have a taunt. That is what makes it problematic. Additionally, aggro is squirrely between player damage, burst damage, healing hate, etc. It is already hard for regular tanks to keep aggro. Pets don't have a chance without a taunt.

[CrimsonMerc]

I know I have talked about this a lot before, but here are my suggestions to vastly improve the Creature Handler profession while still staying within the confines of Pre-CU SWG:

1. Raise the tame creature level cap to 100 - If we raise the tame creature level cap, with also giving the ability to tame any creature up to level 100 (would have to enable these creatures to spawn babies). This would add a lot of variety to the profession and give it new life.

2. Make tamed creatures more powerful - Make tamed creatures more powerful than their wild counterparts by doing two things: buffing their HAM and their damage outputs. I think if their HAM should be buffed by x1.5 and their damage input should be buffed by x1.2.

3. Give pets a taunt ability - just give pets a taunt ability that gives them the ability to hold agro.

[Formidable]

Certain pets should indeed have taunting ability. On that note you would need a certain amount of balance. Like many other games the taunt shouldn’t be 100% nor should it be unbreakable.

I know I have talked about this a lot before, but here are my suggestions to vastly improve the Creature Handler profession while still staying within the confines of Pre-CU SWG:

1. Raise the tame creature level cap to 100

2. Make tamed creatures more powerful - Make tamed creatures more powerful than their wild counterparts by doing two things: buffing their HAM and their damage outputs. I think if their HAM should be buffed by x1.5 and their damage input should be buffed by x1.2.

Some of this might be achievable to a degree, but once again you are talking about re-writing some core systems. That can be major work that we just don’t have the dev time to make ideas like this happen. Not saying these ideas are bad, they just need to be a bit more realistic.

[mykewlname]

Some of this might be achievable to a degree, but once again you are talking about re-writing some core systems. That can be major work that we just don’t have the dev time to make ideas like this happen. Not saying these ideas are bad, they just need to be a bit more realistic.

I'd suggest focusing on Pet Stimpack healing distance and Pet formations. Those two items may be more realistic imho.

[CrimsonMerc]

Some of this might be achievable to a degree, but once again you are talking about re-writing some core systems. That can be major work that we just don’t have the dev time to make ideas like this happen. Not saying these ideas are bad, they just need to be a bit more realistic.

I'd suggest focusing on Pet Stimpack healing distance and Pet formations. Those two items may be more realistic imho.

More realistic than giving us more creatures to tame and making creatures more powerful?

[Dirge]

More realistic than giving us more creatures to tame and making creatures more powerful?

Making more creatures tamable was not one of the items in what was quoted by Formidable. That is actually one of the easier suggestions to implement and will be discussed and considered (just as any other suggestion).

What is not so simple is buffing player pets without it having unintended affects to the underlying creature, or assigning a player ability such as taunt to one of those creatures and expecting it to work as intended. Are those suggestions doable? Yes, probably but what it often comes down to when deciding where to spend our limited development time is the effort involved vs the results. All suggestions are reviewed and if we find something that can be easily accomplished through minor code changes it will often make it to private testing at a minimum. Unfortunately, not everything is that simple and some things you would expect to involve changing a variable or a line of code somewhere turns into something that requires updates to multiple files and a ton of testing.

Nobody is saying "No" to anything on your creature handler wish list but they may not be as easy to accomplish as you may think.

[Formidable]

Some of this might be achievable to a degree, but once again you are talking about re-writing some core systems. That can be major work that we just don’t have the dev time to make ideas like this happen. Not saying these ideas are bad, they just need to be a bit more realistic.

I'd suggest focusing on Pet Stimpack healing distance and Pet formations. Those two items may be more realistic imho.

More realistic than giving us more creatures to tame and making creatures more powerful?

All suggestions are talked about at one point or another and taken into consideration. I wasn't trying to create a feud over whats realistic and what's not. The realism isn't over what can be done with code, as much as how much is the time going to take to code, and how much time is available. What it boils down to is dev time vs critical need. Do we work on 25 new items that will take an hour per, or one item that will take 25 hours of coding time? How will it affect all things balance? How much testing time will it require in addition? That's just an example, hopefully you catch my meaning because it isn't worded perfect.

[Cynar]

I want to take a minute to say kudos to the current team. The new devs have taken smart steps and made it a priority to implement player suggestions, way more than our original team ever had time for. I wish I still had time to help the project along. The team needs you the players to keep making great suggestions to help improve Awakening.

[CrimsonMerc]

Certain pets should indeed have taunting ability. On that note you would need a certain amount of balance. Like many other games the taunt shouldn’t be 100% nor should it be unbreakable.

I know I have talked about this a lot before, but here are my suggestions to vastly improve the Creature Handler profession while still staying within the confines of Pre-CU SWG:

1. Raise the tame creature level cap to 100

2. Make tamed creatures more powerful - Make tamed creatures more powerful than their wild counterparts by doing two things: buffing their HAM and their damage outputs. I think if their HAM should be buffed by x1.5 and their damage input should be buffed by x1.2.

Some of this might be achievable to a degree, but once again you are talking about re-writing some core systems. That can be major work that we just don’t have the dev time to make ideas like this happen. Not saying these ideas are bad, they just need to be a bit more realistic.

So I have been doing a lot of thinking lately about the changes I would like to be implemented for creature handler and I thought that I would make some changes to my original suggestions. My updated suggestions would be a lot easier to achieve and are a bit more sensible. Please let me know what you think.

1. First and foremost, I there should be more tameable creatures. There are a slew of creatures that are under level 70 or under, but for whatever reason they are not tameable. I am in the process of documenting every creature that falls under this category and soon I will have a workable list (this will apply to every planet).

2. At Master CH, I think the max level of pets should be I created from +10 to +30- this would give a grand total of max creature level 100. This wouldn't be inherently game breaking and it would give CHs thr ability to tame more powerful creatures. In addition, it would a lot of diversity to the profession by giving CHs a plethora of creatures to tame. I can add the new (higher level) creatures to my creature list and I can mark them in bold.

3. As it stands, creatures can only do kinetic damage and have zero AP. I would really like to see this changed. I think low level creatures should always have AP 0, but their damage type would be dependent on if their are melee or ranged (kinetic for melee and acid for ranged). I think mid level creatures should have access to AP 1 and finally I think high level creatures should have access to AP 2.

4. I think the Enraged Pets ability should be slightly changed. Instead of it just because a berserk for pets, it could be just a short duration damage boost for a period of 45 mintues. When enraged, pets will do more damage.

What do you think? I am not trying to spend thousands upon thousands of hours trying to reinvent the wheel... I just want there to be some realistic, yet sensible changes that would improve CH and make the profession overall more enjoyable.

[lassic]

My .02. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it would be nice to make CH more combat viable.
1) There are a lot of tamable creatures out there. The catch is how many USEFUL tamable creatures are there. Currently the only ones that do any kind of real DPS in pve are rancors and bull rancors. That "to hit" modifier is what makes the difference between the creatures.
2) I agree. Add 5 more points, and then make the the SEA's work. +25 creature levels, etc.. that will take us to the 100 pet levels.
3) Maybe add an equal AP rating to the creatures AR rating.
4) Maybe add the taunt skill to the enraged pets ability?

[CrimsonMerc]

My .02. I agree with you wholeheartedly that it would be nice to make CH more combat viable.
1) There are a lot of tamable creatures out there. The catch is how many USEFUL tamable creatures are there. Currently the only ones that do any kind of real DPS in pve are rancors and bull rancors. That "to hit" modifier is what makes the difference between the creatures.
2) I agree. Add 5 more points, and then make the the SEA's work. +25 creature levels, etc.. that will take us to the 100 pet levels.
3) Maybe add an equal AP rating to the creatures AR rating.
4) Maybe add the taunt skill to the enraged pets ability?

1) It is true that there would only be a handful of useful combat creatures (essentially any creature CL 50 and above)- however that is only part of the problem. The current system seems like it was half implemented because there are so many creatures available, but for one reason or another they aren't tamable- I would really like to see this addressed because this seems to be laziness on the part of SOE. I will finalize my taming wish list in the next couple of days and post it here.

2) I 100% agree with this- if the goal is to do this with tapes or with added bonuses that would be awesome. I feel like making the jump from max level 70 to 100 isn't a big jump (and maxing the max level of pets CAs work wouldn't be too difficult). This would allow you to team things like an Ancient Bull Rancor, A Malkloc Plainswalker, etc.

3. I actually really like your idea here... at level 50 most creatures will have a light armor rating so they would have AP 1. There are only a handful of animals that have a medium armor rating between CL 70 and CL 100, but that would grant them AP 2- these could be VERY rare and valuable pets.

4. From what I understand, a taunt skill would be too difficult to implement with the current development team. Since regular taunt has so many issues, I think it would be ever harder to figure out how to apply this to a pet, but I do like your line of thinking.

Stand by for that creature list because it is something I have put a lot of effort into and I think if the devs saw it they would be pretty impressed.

[lassic]

http://www.swgcreatures.info/detail.asp?creatureID=687

[CrimsonMerc]

http://www.swgcreatures.info/detail.asp?creatureID=687

This took an insane amount a time, but here is a list of creatures that are NOT tamable, but should be tamable. Creatures that are in green are creatures that could possibly become tamable if the max level cap was raised from 70 to 100. Creatures in yellow are lair bosses. This lists every planet- I will be adding to this list and I hope this list gets stickied somewhere. I also want to add armor ratings because I think that would be very beneficial.

Naboo
Deadly Hooded Rawl - CL 12 (Fanned Rawl lair boss)
Narglatch Hunter – CL 12
Maverick Gualama – CL 14
King Venom Nightspider - CL 14 (Nightspider Poison Spitter \ Agressor lair boss)
Mountain Ikopi – CL 17
Aggravated Kaadu Trampler - CL 17 (Kaadu lair boss)
Narglatch Guardian – CL 18
Alpha Veermok – CL 20
Veermok Pygmy - CL 20
Giant Peko Peko – CL 23
Giant Cave Veermok - CL 26
Narglatch Matriarch – CL 27
Bolle Bol – CL 27
Elder Pulverizer - CL 30 (Bolle Bol lair boss)
Ikopi Stag – CL 30
Plains Hunter - CL 31
Swamp Stalker CL - 32
Rogue Fambaa – CL 37
Furious Devastator - CL 38 (Fambaa lair boss)

Coreilla
Bageraset Bruiser - CL 12
Majestic Plump Rasp – CL 12
Gulginaw – CL 13
Rogue Bageraset - CL 13
Tabage Scavanger - CL 14
Dwarf Gronda – CL 13
Canoid Pack Leader – CL 18
Dalyrake Matriarch – CL 18
Tabage Protector - CL 18
Swamp Humbaba – CL 19
Razor Cat Eviscerator - CL 24 (Razor Cat lair boss)
Sharnaff – CL 31
Elder Gronda – CL 33
Sharnaff Reckless Ravager - CL 34 (Sharnaff lair boss)
Sharnaff Bull – CL 38
Gronda Patriarch – CL 45
Gronda Juggernaut – CL 70, Light armor

Tatooine
Plague Rat – CL 12
Rock Beetle – CL 14
Rogue Bantha – CL 15
Swarming Lesser Dewback – CL 15
Desert Womp Rat – CL 18
Squill – CL 18
Great Squill – CL 20
Cannibal Dewback – CL 21
Large Cave Beetle – CL 22
Mountain Squill Hunter – CL 22
Bonecracker Bantha – CL 24 (Bull Bantha lair boss)
Bantha Matriarch – CL 25
Sandreaver - CL 26 (Dewback lair boss)
Grizzled Dewback – CL 27
Furious Ronto - CL 27 (Ronto lair boss)
Large Sand Beetle – CL 27
Armodragon - CL 34 (Dragonet lair boss)
Female Mountain Squill – CL 34
Wild Bladeback Boar – CL 39
Mountain Squill Guardian – CL 40
Malignant Squill – CL 50, Light Armor

Rori
Mutant Bark Mite Worker – CL 12
Nudfuh – CL 13
Grizzled Bark Mite – CL 14
Giant Mutant Bark Mite – CL 16
Wood Mite Matriarch – CL 16
Tattered Torton – CL 17
Gnarled Bark Mite Queen – CL 18
Shallow Torton – CL 19
Enraged Wood Mite King – CL 19
Adult Pygmy Torton – CL 20
Sap-covered Forest Mite Queen – CL 20
Pygmy Torton Protector – CL 22
Mutant Bark Mite Solider – CL 24
Torton – CL 24
Torton Pygmy Matriarch – CL 26
Mature Pygmy Torton – CL 26
Feral Forest Mite King – CL 27
Mountain Torton – CL 34
Dreaded Vir Vur – CL 38
Mutant Bark Mite Queen – CL 38

Talus
Feeble Kima – CL 11
Giant Decay Mite Harvester – CL 12
Cyst-covered Rot Mite Guard – CL 13
Giant Decay Mite Protector – CL 14
Foaming Vynock – CL 14
Blister Rot Mite Queen – Cl 15
Puss-covered Decay Mite Solider – CL 15
Giant Decay Mite Solider – CL 17
Oozing Dung Mite Guardian – Cl 17
Dalyrake Matriarch – CL 18
Decay Mite Sentry – CL 18
Festering Dung Mite Queen – CL 18
Sickly Decay Mite Queen – CL 20
Giant Decay Mite Guardian – CL 24
Tortur Bull – CL 25
Giant Decay Mite Queen – CL 26
Frenzied Kahmurra – CL 33
Rabid Mutant Kahmurra – CL 41
Mire Marauder – CL 56

Yavin VI
Stintaril Scavenger – CL 11
Spined Puc – CL 14
Stintaril – CL 14
Whisper Bird Female – CL 15
Skreeg Female – CL 16
Stintaril Fleshripper – CL 16
Stintaril Ravager – CL 16
Whisper Bird Male – CL 16
Poisonous Spined Puc – CL 19
Majestic Whisper Bird – CL 19
Stunted Woolamander – CL 19
Female Mamien – CL 18
Mamien Matriarch – CL 20
Tybis – CL 20
Choku Packmaster – CL 21
Female Tybis – CL 22
Kliknik Mantis – CL 22
Skreeg Male – CL 22
Female Mawgax – CL 23
Male Tybis – CL 24
Ancient Mamien – CL 24
Ominous Skreeg – CL 24
Mamien Jungle Lord – CL 24
Male Mawgax – CL 25
Enraged Tybis – CL 26
Grand Tybis – CL 26
Bone Angler – CL 27
Woolamander – CL 27
Woolamander Gatherer – CL 29
Angler Recluse – CL 30
Lurking Angler – CL 30
Kliknik Dark Worker – CL 30
Kliknik Queen Harvester – CL 30
Mawgax Raptor – CL 30
Kliknik Queen – CL 37
Kliknik Dark Hunter – CL 38
Woolamander Harvester – CL 38
Kliknik Dark Warrior – CL 40
Kliknik Dark Queen – CL 40
Kliknik Dark Defender – CL 42
Woolamander Reaper – CL 47
Woolamander Harrower – CL 51, Light Armor
Stintaril Prowler – CL 83
Mad Angler – CL 95


Lok
Sandy Spined Snake – CL 13
Gurnaset - CL 15
Langlatch Hunter - CL - 15
Sharptooth Langlatch - CL 17
Spined Snake – CL 17
Giant Spined Snake – CL 18
Kusask – CL 18
Langlatch Giant - CL 20
Gurk Welp - CL 27
Gurk – CL 30
Gurk Tracker – CL 30
Mature Snorbal Male – CL 32
Mature Snorbal Female – Cl 32
Elder Snorball Female – CL 34
Feral Gurk - CL 34
Elder Snorball Male – CL 37
Demolishing Snorbal Titan – CL 40
Reclusive Gurk King – CL 45, Light Armor
Snorbal Matriarch – CL 45
Kusak Hunter – CL 73, Light Armor
Deadly Vesp – CL 93
Kimogila – CL 95, Medium Armor

Dantooine
Hostile Huurton - CL 18
Fierce Huurton - CL 22
Savage Huurton - CL 26
Huurton Matron – CL 26
Voritor Dasher – CL 30
Swift Charging Bol - CL 34 (Bol lair boss)
Quenker Ravager – CL 38
Grual Mangler - CL 39 (Graul Mauler lair boss)
Huurton Bloodhunter – CL 40
Seething Bol Crusher – CL 44
Fierce Piket Protector – CL 45
Quenker Relic Reaper – CL 45
Glassland Voritor Tracker – CL 45
Thune Heard Leader – CL 48. Light Armor
Ancient Grual – CL 50, Light Armor
Vexed Voritor Lizard – CL 53, Light Armor
Frenzied Grual – CL 56 , Light Armor – *marked as tamable but have never seen babies
Slinking Voritor Hunter – CL 57, Light Armor
Spiked Slasher - CL 58 (Grassland Voritor Tracker lair boss)
Huurton Reaper - CL 84

Endor
Bounding Jax - CL 16
Bolle Bol Colt – CL 17
Roba Runt - CL 19
Swirl Prong - CL 19
Bark Mite Burrower Swarmling – CL 20
Bloodseeker Mite Drone – CL 20
Bolle Bol Stomper – CL 23
Bolle Bol Bark Biter – CL 27
Blooming Jax - CL 27
Blushing Jax - CL 27
Erratic Swirl Prong - CL 27
Bark Mite Burrower Drone – CL 29
Bolle Bol Male – CL 30
Reclusive Roba - CL 30
Roba Pack Leader - CL 30
Swirl Prong Impaler - CL 30
Bloodseeker Mite Hunter – CL 31
Gurreck Forest Stalker – CL 32
Swirl Prong Pack Leader - CL 32
Bordok Mare - CL 34
Roaming Bordok Stud - CL 34
Crimson Blurrg – CL 35
Elder Hanadak Matriarch - CL 35
Venom-filled Arachane – CL 36
Diseased Blurrg - CL 37
Bloodseeker Mite Guardian – CL 38
Bordok Heard Master - CL 40
Radiant Lantern Bird – CL 40
Hanadak Ancient – CL 41
Blurrg Sand Crawler – CL 43
Bark Mite Burrower Worker – CL 45
Blood-Frenzied Boar Wolf – CL 45
Bordok Ancient - CL 45
Deranged Mantigruge – CL 45
Aggravated Bordok Mare - CL 50
Insane Mantigrue Berserker - 50, Light Armor - (Deranged Mantigrue lair boss)
Mantigruge Reaper – CL 50, Light Armor
Roba Boar – CL 50, Light Armor
Queen Merek Harvester – CL 50
King Merek Harvester – CL 50
Bark Mite Burrower – CL 55
Merek Death’s Head – CL 56
A Merek Harvester – CL 56
Blood-drenched Merek King – CL 56, Light Armor (Toxic Merek Battlelord lair boss)
Infuriated Roba Protector - CL 57
Bark Mite Burrower Queen – CL 60, Light Armor
Arachne Queen – CL 63. Light Armor

Dathomir
Relentless Purbole – CL 21
Angry Baz Nitch Avenger – CL 24
Purbole Elder – CL 24
Cavern Spider – CL 27
Malkloc Bull - CL 28
Giant Baz Nitch – CL 35
Kamurith Snapper – CL 44
Cavern Spider Hunter -CL 46
Cavern Spider Queen – CL 46
Nocuous Kamurith – CL 46
Reclusive Cavern Spider – CL 46
Surefoot Brackaset – CL 46
Kamurith Defiler – CL 50, Light Armor
Rancor Pygmy – CL 50
Gaping Spider Recluse Queen – CL 68, Light Armor
Reclusive Cavern Spider Queen – CL 70, Light Armor
Mutant Rancor – CL 75, Light Armor
Enraged Rancor – CL 80, Light Armor
Female Malkloc Plainswalker - CL 81, Light Armor
Malkloc Plainswalker - CL 84, Light Armor
Monstrous Brute - CL 87, Light Armor (Bull Rancor lair boss)
Enraged Bull Rancor – CL 89, Light Armor
Ancient Bull Rancor – CL 98, Medium Armor

[Cynar]

If you want it stickied you might want to place it in the Creature Handler forums. The devs don’t need a list of creatures as there is a website posted earlier and not to mention they are listed in the database that they work from. If the purpose is for players to see the info as I said post it in the CH forums and I’ll sticky it for you.

[CrimsonMerc]

If you want it stickied you might want to place it in the Creature Handler forums. The devs don’t need a list of creatures as there is a website posted earlier and not to mention they are listed in the database that they work from. If the purpose is for players to see the info as I said post it in the CH forums and I’ll sticky it for you.

I have posted the list, thank you!

[Drakhem]

Just found a baby Frenzied Graul with no Creature Handlers online to come and claim. Such a Shame!

[lassic]

I am very sad. I have been here going on four years now, and have never found a frenzied baby.

Just found a baby Frenzied Graul with no Creature Handlers online to come and claim. Such a Shame!