Reinvigorating the Player Base

[abnel]

I've been keeping an eye on the number of people playing on the server based on the volume of traffic through New Destiny based on the size of Airy's group and the volume (not amount paid) of tips as an indication of the number of people playing.

I have noticed a slow decline over the past 12 months and while we have a healthy volume of regulars the amount of new players and casual traffic has certainly reduced.

With the change of management and the imminent release of patch 9 I believe we have a real opportunity to reinvigorate the server and player base as I'm sure the new management would also like to achieve.

To this end I've been trying to figure out what barriers there are to new players and what might bring players back to the server. Below I've put in a list and would appreciate everyones input so we can collectively work on ways to keep the population fresh with active players and encourage new players.

Barriers:
Starter cities are empty.
A common statement I hear a lot from new starters is "Where are all the players?" A simple solution to this is a barker listing all the active cities. A more proactive solution is for a doc and ent to be set up in at least Mos Eisly cantina who is also a barker for the active cities. My wife and I are considering how we can assist with this and would be happy to put in shifts with others as long as people don't abuse the doc buffing service. Note: She will not do it when she is playing and I can't afford to have another toon dedicated to buffing.. Its hard enough running Airy.

Perhaps the new management might consider providing a doc and ent to permanently buff in Mos Eisly so new players have a chance to get started..

Gen Chat is not there by default for new players
Get chat is not easy to find for someone who has not played the game for 13 years. It took me a while to realise when I first started again. Perhaps this is something people can configure to automatically load when you log in for the first time or something to be added to a new players starter guide.

Hard Mode
I'm not advocating changing hard more. This is something that makes this server unique and worth while. However it does make it hard for new players to get a foot hold in the galaxy. I know a few people have new player starter kits which they give away and a lot of people give away credits to new starters. I've debated this for a long time internally. I'm not sure giving credits helps as much as we would all like to think nor does giving credits as it takes away from that all important sense of achievement.

Instead I'd suggest we look to running new player starter classes where we teach the basics of combat, mission hunting and pair that with providing grind armour. But we would need regular schedules to achieve this.. Thoughts?

Bringing Players Back:
Patch 9
We are all hoping that patch 9 will go some way to bringing back some of the older players. Lets hope it does but we need to be patient for the time being until the new team get this ready.

Events
Regular events used to make an amazing difference to the player base and kept people coming back. Unfortunately Thor left and he left a hole behind that was never filled. He was amazing but we need the likes of him again. If not as regularly at least quarterly. I don't know how we achieve this but I know the MG event will go some way to helping here.

Getting the word out
As the team behind this server change we need to get the word out to the player community that things are changing for the better. Lets look for those opportunities as they arise and speak positively about the changes.

I'd be keen to hear your thoughts and feedback. I am happy to add the constructive ideas to this list.

Airy and Blazen

[Darkspecialist]

I have a thought..

not drive new players away because they do something with their character people dont agree with. Ill just say it was a town, a misunderstanding on both parts and a forum argument. I have heard people say they pride the server on their community and im sure its a great one but that seems to be forgotten sometimes when some of the community is challenged.

or myself, i was asked to do something i didnt agree with. I also took advantage of something offered in game. Regardless if i agree with a person or a guild over it, the outcome has remained the same..the willingness to not play.

the getting over ourselves is the biggest hurdle some of us need to work on.

[Turin]

Good post blazen some good ideas.

Hopefully we can work together as a community to see some of it come to fruitation.

If I can assist with anything please feel free to ask

[skyhunter11]

I don't log on as much mostly because publish 9 isn't live yet. We all been waiting. Publish 8 was a huge bugged out publish. Not really sure of what it fixed, and I am sure it did fix or add things, but it sure broke alot of things.

Small things that can make the server more fun to play.

Increase the loot drops for the high end npcs. Just not fun for all the time it takes prep, get friends, and then go kill an elder or a councilwoman. Mostly drop credits.

Change BH traps so jedi can heal, fight, force actions, etc, so its just a root and not a freeze. I think the idea behind immobilizing a jedi is that they can't attack. But that might be too much to figure out how to allow certain actions like force healing and to lock out a jedi from preforming attacks. As the system sees heals and attacks as same kind of action.

Those are the sorta things that are independent of a publish that can be addressed if the time is available for the devs to change.

Narrk

[abnel]

Thanks for the feedback so far.

The reference to player behaviour makes me think that perhaps we need a player based charter of behaviour that provides guidelines on what is appropriate and what isn’t. We all know this should be common sense but sometimes we all need a little reminder. Cynar has played this role in the past but it should be self moderating rather than need the hand of an admin. Thoughts? I’m happy to draft one if people are keen.

Profession specific items like the bounty hunter and Jedi specific comments below I suggest we keep to the profession forums. Why? We all have our likes and dislikes for various professions and we would all like to see things changed. But for every person who wants a change there is another who doesn’t. Let’s keep this discussion out profession specific topics.

Airy

[Sionix]

The reference to player behaviour makes me think that perhaps we need a player based charter of behaviour that provides guidelines on what is appropriate and what isn’t. We all know this should be common sense but sometimes we all need a little reminder. Cynar has played this role in the past but it should be self moderating rather than need the hand of an admin. Thoughts? I’m happy to draft one if people are keen.

Airy

Y'all giggle at me when I get on the "server mom" role in general when I hear people acting confrontational or whatever people might want to call it.. but that is exactly what I normally do. If you want people to play, stay and enjoy the server the general atmosphere has got to be that way. For a while Turin made sure to send newer folk my way or to Absinthe of TJM not for either of us to guild the newer folk, but knowing we would help make sure they were set up in beginner stuff and get acquainted with the server and mechanics if he didn't have the time.

I will say this.. many times newer people tell me.. well I didn't see anyone talking in General so thought no one was here. Suggestion? If you are going to wear that helper tag.. be in general and keep an ear for the newer folk looking for advice etc.. ?

[abnel]

Where is that like button Sionix!

[jediknight71]

So I'm still new to the server, but I guess the question is what caused the population drop to begin with?

[Templar]

Much like any other EMU population tends to spike after a launch or a wipe, which you eventually lose to attrition over the life of the server. Most populations seem cyclical, with coinciding spikes around holidays and movie releases. The same decrease in population has affected other servers as well. So long story longer, it comes with the territory. People will cycle through, they always do.

[L4TCH]

So I'm still new to the server, but I guess the question is what caused the population drop to begin with?

The amount of xp loss when a Jedi get's DB'd by a BH
Loot drop %'ages are extremely low on council women, ancients, DWB, Geo
Templates are all bugged
No new content and server keeps asking for donations
Barely any PvP and when there is, all everyone does is report you

Just a few off the top of my head. Spending most my times these days on DOTA2 and PUBG.

[skyhunter11]

Experience loss for a jedi isn't bad. Grinding it back can be if you let it get too deep in the hole.

Jedi are weak here. I soloed a jedi last night, at one point I was out of traps. With just food and PSGs I still incapped him. I got close to dying a few times. Well, I didn't db fast enough and he got me incapped, to be fair. He was nice and let me get up for a few seconds. But I was outa food and i was getting Knocked down alot. But still got em without food. I did manage to get as many traps out of crate as I could before he attacked. I had to use what few traps I had sparely. But I still won when I think I probably shouldn't. He was a worthy opponent, we fought for what seemed to be an hour.

PSGs are too strong, I don't need to slice them when before I did.

Rewards for the risk is terrible here. I love hard mode, but the rewards need to reflect the risk. Most folks who play SWG are older and have lives. Can't spend a year every night to get some loot that has 1 in 10000 chance of dropping. The other servers are more attractive because the risk is less and the rewards are more forthcoming. Which is isn't fun for me because I prefer challenging content. Risk verses reward needs to be balanced for loot.

Of course, publish 9 to fix alot of game killing bugs. My understanding, devs focus right now is to finish implementing publish 9 before other issues can be addressed. That will go a long way to catch up with the competing servers.

Narrk

[lassic]

There is an ebb and flow to players on any server, including this one. I have been here almost two years now and a lot has to do with a particular phenomenon. "RAWR Jedi! Grind, grind, grind, grind... finally unlock. THEN it becomes hard." Time and time again, I have seen this. Once it gets harder after unlock, a lot of folks quit. The risk/reward factor is a real issue. No consequence to the BH, and massive hits to the Jedi. The BH/Jedi game is such a small factor, compared to the rest. However, this small subset often has the loudest voice. BH whine about how OP Jedi is, Jedi whine about BH being too OP. Nothing changes. The simple reality is, there is a balance that needs to be reached. Currently it is kind of in flux, but pub 9 will correct some of the things, but the Jedi/BH conflict for this server will not be resolved or mitigated until after that.

The other part has to do with the instant gratification factor. This server is not about handouts and making it easy. Some folks show up after having been on a 1.5x-4x exp rate and get here and it is just a 1x. Loot is not handed out. They don't get that dopamine hit right away, and they leave.

Anyway, there is a core group of folks here who support the server and its growth. There is a stable economy, with room for growth and market opportunities should someone have the wherewithal to do it.

[tnick]

Experience loss for a jedi isn't bad. Grinding it back can be if you let it get too deep in the hole.

Jedi are weak here. I soloed a jedi last night, at one point I was out of traps. With just food and PSGs I still incapped him. I got close to dying a few times. Well, I didn't db fast enough and he got me incapped, to be fair. He was nice and let me get up for a few seconds. But I was outa food and i was getting Knocked down alot. But still got em without food. I did manage to get as many traps out of crate as I could before he attacked. I had to use what few traps I had sparely. But I still won when I think I probably shouldn't. He was a worthy opponent, we fought for what seemed to be an hour.

PSGs are too strong, I don't need to slice them when before I did.

I will agree that the PSGs are a bit strong while fast blast + LLC is a bit strong too.

I will admit that a Master Healer is not the best solo/dueling specialization, but I don't believe they should be 3 hit and killed. a BH with all their abilities and food and such can afford to slip up without it being deadly (at least against a Healer) whereas if I slip up even slightly it is life and death. The skill cap against even a slightly decent BH is way too high.

Rewards for the risk is terrible here. I love hard mode, but the rewards need to reflect the risk. Most folks who play SWG are older and have lives. Can't spend a year every night to get some loot that has 1 in 10000 chance of dropping. The other servers are more attractive because the risk is less and the rewards are more forthcoming. Which is isn't fun for me because I prefer challenging content. Risk verses reward needs to be balanced for loot.

Yes, so much yes. I used to be a big time Krayt farmer, I must have killed thousands of dragons and gotten maybe 3-5 pearls that worth a damn and maybe a dozen tissues that were better than average.

<Kk> ran the DWB numerous times and came out empty handed other than getting the guaranteed jetpack stabilizer part and the alum mineral that was the quest item and a few DE-10 barrels. We saw a handful of decent CA's and AA's off elders and axkva out of hundreds of kills. The acklay: terrible.

Loot percentages were so bad, we had a guy create a spreadsheet tracker to report the terrible drop rates. risk vs reward just seemed so bad we stopped doing them.

[davej30]

Jedi are weak here.

Jedi are not weak here,elsewhere a jedi gets smoked solo by a tkm.Look at the complaints coming from basilisk at the moment,jedi's getting killed left right and center.
I will risk putting my foot in it and tread careful so as not to get a #cynarban.
I am currently elsewhere (Helping <BH> but i will be returning) and everything ive always said about jedi is correct. It's been refreshing to find out i've not been gaslighting myself I was beginning to have doubts but realised being elsewhere its player mentality again thats the problem.

IF players knew how to play a jedi correctly a few things would happen their survival would be longer and also to face the fact that a jedi is going to die,not if but when.
If publish 9 works as intended and the FRS is brought in, Awakening Jedi will most likely be one of the toughest jedi on the servers.
The emphasis is on ranged attacks here as tkm is valueless,and although the % is lower vs fastblast its still a defense.
Imagine for a moment if you will,a tkm with a ADK'd psg or a tkm with mandalorian armour and a psg,that means no saberblock at all.If you didn't have the extra toughness that's a scary place to be in.

Thats the harsh reality of it,but know-one wants to hear it.

Compared to Live you have experts in their respective fields knowing their professions inside out,which they did not know on Live that makes players formidable vs SWG's jedi.It's the knowledge and experience of game mechanics that some did not have when they faced jedi in live.

Rewards for the risk is terrible here. I love hard mode, but the rewards need to reflect the risk. Most folks who play SWG are older and have lives. Can't spend a year every night to get some loot that has 1 in 10000 chance of dropping. The other servers are more attractive because the risk is less and the rewards are more forthcoming. Which is isn't fun for me because I prefer challenging content. Risk verses reward needs to be balanced for loot.

I have been here almost two years now and a lot has to do with a particular phenomenon. "RAWR Jedi! Grind, grind, grind, grind... finally unlock. THEN it becomes hard." Time and time again, I have seen this. Once it gets harder after unlock, a lot of folks quit. The risk/reward factor is a real issue.

The other part has to do with the instant gratification factor. This server is not about handouts and making it easy. Some folks show up after having been on a 1.5x-4x exp rate and get here and it is just a 1x. Loot is not handed out. They don't get that dopamine hit right away, and they leave.

You can give a jedi x6 xp rates and they will still complain that they got killed even if it only takes 10mins to regrind the xp loss from a BH death.It's about the mindset that's the biggest issue and that will never change when people want SWG to be KOTOR.

However that being said and despite peoples opinion of me i've always been willing to compromise.
And with the grind + village that's a hard road for a jedi,We have had discussions on this forum about reduction of xp loss or some other penalty for death that's not so severe,perhaps these should be looked into.
It won't fully change the mindset as that will never go away but it might make the pill a little less bitter to swallow.

[skyhunter11]

I didn't mean to hijack the thread with BH jedi issues. But playing a jedi for many folks is a huge selling point. I'm not one of them. I'm the hunter. Jedi are tougher here than other servers, that's true. But against awakening bounty hunters, there are few jedi who stand out that give bounty hunters hell. All I am talking about are small tweaks, nothing revolutionary in the way jedi are set up here.

Risk verses reward, still the number one issue for me and my guild mates. Keep it hard mode, just increase the rewards to justify the risk.

Narrk

[davej30]

SWG shouldn't just be about Jedi v BH,that's a small mini game,yes there should be some tweaks but there should also be some tweaks for creature handler and carbineer.
I would have preferred it wasn't mentioned on this thread and i could have saved everyone the embarrassment of me getting on my soapbox but hey ho,things happen.
Of the other things mentioned Loot is an issue,Generally we all groan and accept the way it is but it is BAD.
It does need a tweak (not to high levels as we appreciate hard gotten gains) to make the time served a little more appealing.

[Sionix]

SWG shouldn't just be about Jedi v BH,that's a small mini game

Totally agree with this. There are a good number of us that would never want to play a jedi. Do I respect people that do? Yep.. but I will never make one. (I wouldn't be able to stomach wiping out that work I already did.) Our main crafter base has also proven time again and again that they will step up and help newer crafters get on their feet. End game players like Turin who have taken other guilds besides his own time and time again to get gear they cannot do no their own, Fozzie who says hang tight, I will set you up so you can get started as a architect, Panzer handing out resources so people can get that beginning grind done.. all our ents and docs who say Bah pay me when you can afford to..

Our server is special because of US.. the player base. Who we are, how we react and with 95% of the time, great with returning and new players. Our admin/devs have always been awesome imo.. not a feat easy to accomplish working with this game code. Personally I can't even write a proper macro lol. They fix what they can in their limited personal game time on a regular basis because they care about the server, same as we do.

Newer servers come and go.. Awakening.. ? Home...

[tnick]

SWG shouldn't just be about Jedi v BH,that's a small mini game

It really sucks when my favorite character stays logged out most of the time because if i wanted to do anything I'd have a BH on my ass within 10 minutes.

There was a huge discussion almost 2 years ago trying to fix the issues of overpowered jedi and bounty hunters. Jedi lost their extra 24 skill points from the village being implemented and bounty hunters profited from being able to pick up extra offense/defense abilities from force sensitive skills.

[abnel]

People, I asked that you take profession specific issues to the profession forums not here.

Here I ask for a call to arms to help us reinvigorate the player base.

Please respect that or I'll ask that the dev's close down the discussion.

Airy

[Drakathos]

This is the best I can do as a healer against BHrs I am not exactly a great pvpr but I can usually hold my own.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5cuO4cazJG0

https://youtu.be/li7XDt7wrGc

Right now I am chilling somewhere else with LORE guys due to lack of things left to do, 3 years is a long time and at some point you run out of toys to play with.