So is CH going back to the pre-CU too?

[QuorTek]

I mean pretty much all other professions is quite insanely usefull, except for a few who still has issues eg. smuggler, squadleader.

I was wondering if we could have CH as how it originally was in the pre-cu being able to handle 3 CL60~70 pets at a time.... yes yes it might seem OP, but no less than Melee soloing krayt dragons really and other stunts alongside these lines, either way it would be an excelent approach of making the profession a bit more used and versaitile in general.

[Meparch]

Having 3 CL70s is not OP. It was only over powered compared to other professions at launch when resources weren't shifting and the good buffs, armor and guns were not available. Once those did became available CH became completely useless as a combat profession. A CL70 pet would hit for around 550-620 damage every 2 seconds, no AP and only ever kinetic damage. 3 CL 70s would still not match the dps output of a medium AP 1 second hit with special. Also the pets never hold agro.

The real question is how difficult would it be to unnerf CH?

Though fixing the no ranged attack bug would be helpful.

[ShadowOrdo]

This is a thread i be interested in seeing out it develops. I am aware CH struggles in this games time line for the reasons Meparch states. I personally would like to see CH made viable in PVP.

Somewhat off topic OP, but you mentioned smuggler and Squad leader having issues. I am not aware of this, what issues? feel free to pm me if you rather not discuss here.

[QuorTek]

Well upping CH quite a bit is not bad at all since all the tools is at hand already, it is just changing the facts onto them as it is really, and no it wont challenge other professions really but would be nice if it would be so much more on pair as a support class.

For an instance a swordman would probably train some fencer or TK as well and maybe adding in more defensive points such as posture change and melee/range defence making the pets go more along those lines as well would certainly not be bad at all, 3 CL60~70 pets out at at any given time and maybe upping the damage a bit would make CH extremely much more viable or more on pair with other professions or support professions, eg. for making upping the damage a bit more more simple could just add faster attacks instead to balance or counter it out.

I agree to that smuggler and squadleader should maybe have some moves as well, eg more defence or general range accuracy or whichever or even making a skill like feign death work out just well, likewise it would be nice if the remaining commands for CH would work as well, eg. guard, friend, formations.

[Lowsider]

I too loved CH, part of it was just having my pets out. What if Bioengineer was tied into CH and a BE could give his pets temporary buffs such as "Toxin 1". TOXIN 1 an armor eating Bioengineered substance is applied to creature claws and teeth, granting creature 10 AP for 20 min.

That could be a cool touch for two classes that already tie into each other.

[Leadfingers]

Seems to me I remember my pets being able to hold agro. I could them apply bleeds and other status effects at my leasure. I used to have pets in the 20's and 30's with the same stats that I now have on my level 60. I don't remember being able to use three high level pets at a time but it may simply have been an issue of affording them or finding any I liked. I do remember using three at a time. Always has a ranged pet using poisons. That does beg the question. Why is ranged attack NOT implemented? I can understand "Guard" to a degree. It's too tempting to exploit. The same can be said of some of the Meatlump spawns. If the pets can't hold agro, as they once were able to do to some degree, then they are nothing more than DPS and serve no practical purpose even in PVE, UNLESS you could have three high level pets doing DPS. only then might the class be worth playing. As it is I am beginning to question the viability of CH even in PVE situations.

[Meparch]

When the game first launched CHes could pull up to 3 pets and each up to CL70. They later nerfed CH to have that be 3 pets with a combined total of CL70. This was a pretty early nerf and before top end armor and guns and buffs were available. It was also before the big creature nerf of Dec 03. Before then a horned voritor lizard had medium armor was a bitch to kill one on one. Now you just spin their layer. The CH nerf now seems unnecessary and premature as CH is very under powered.

I am not sure if the code for pet argo was ever written for EMU. It doesn't seem to be. Range pets were working just fine and then were broken. Clearly whomever is doing the pets at the EMU now isn't all that talented and is just trashing the system that was once pretty darn good considering.

[Stratas]

Any updates? Would be nice to put this class back into a desired class to level and play.

[huan]

Yes! give the CH love and put all the extinct pets back in the game :p

[QuorTek]

Problem is as long as the hype is all about Jedi and BH the never looked back at classes will not be taken into consideration anytime soon if ever.

a few possible things:
-Pet taunt command that always work.
-Pets being tougher and doing more damage and with the scale of using 3 CL70ish at time doing as much damage as a rifleman as long as you have a full template and possible master Ranger to max out the class and make it deadly efficient alongside other professions that already is and the ability to hit desired pools of choice which the pets can be bred into.
-Pet taunt swap command if one of your pets get the bleeds onto them and switching it to another.
-Enhanced pet healing and quicker removal of bleeds, wounds.
-Being able to summon pets when engaged in combat, being able to revive pets.

People would say that i to would be overpowered, but many others would say it would be a very nice alternative to be playing Swordman, rifleman or whichever else... the profession would be a cool thing to have and addition to the battlefields... more a more colorfull game to play... the goal is to in my head that the pets should be your weapon not the rifle/sword/lightsaber or whichever else with creature handler that is.

[Xiphos]

Time is limited, resources are very limited. Having a condescending tone won't motivate change, either.

But...a constructive and clear conversation of realistic changes might. I'd recommend getting together with server CHs and post a short list of the most important/desired changes in the suggestions section, and staff will have a look.

[Vikshtrum]

a few possible things:
-Pet taunt command that always work.
-Pets being tougher and doing more damage and with the scale of using 3 CL70ish at time doing as much damage as a rifleman as long as you have a full template and possible master Ranger to max out the class and make it deadly efficient alongside other professions that already is and the ability to hit desired pools of choice which the pets can be bred into.
-Pet taunt swap command if one of your pets get the bleeds onto them and switching it to another.
-Enhanced pet healing and quicker removal of bleeds, wounds.
-Being able to summon pets when engaged in combat, being able to revive pets.

People would say that i to would be overpowered, but many others would say it would be a very nice alternative to be playing Swordman, rifleman or whichever else... the profession would be a cool thing to have and addition to the battlefields... more a more colorfull game to play... the goal is to in my head that the pets should be your weapon not the rifle/sword/lightsaber or whichever else with creature handler that is.

No need to start another thread, let's continue where QuorTek left off and get some input for other changes the CH community would like to see. I think Quor's list is solid, and may make CH a viable combat prof on its own, let alone if complemented with rifles, pistols, TKM, etc.

Being able to switch pets in combat sounds outstanding... the ability to use multiple pet specials, bring in subs, and have a much more complex and rewarding combat experience as a whole. These changes will also arguably provide a great incentive to spending hours upon hours in search of those rare pets out there with the right special we want to stack our prey with... a much better reason to do so than simply having a novelty pokemon. If these changes (esp. bringing out 3 CL70 pets) allow CHs to possibly take down upper tier farming mobs, I'm sure we can all see the potential for new markets selling rare/strong pets opening up, not to mention heavily bolstering the existing BE market.

What else?

[Unholyfrostgod]

a few possible things:
-Pet taunt command that always work.
-Pets being tougher and doing more damage and with the scale of using 3 CL70ish at time doing as much damage as a rifleman as long as you have a full template and possible master Ranger to max out the class and make it deadly efficient alongside other professions that already is and the ability to hit desired pools of choice which the pets can be bred into.
-Pet taunt swap command if one of your pets get the bleeds onto them and switching it to another.
-Enhanced pet healing and quicker removal of bleeds, wounds.
-Being able to summon pets when engaged in combat, being able to revive pets.

People would say that i to would be overpowered, but many others would say it would be a very nice alternative to be playing Swordman, rifleman or whichever else... the profession would be a cool thing to have and addition to the battlefields... more a more colorfull game to play... the goal is to in my head that the pets should be your weapon not the rifle/sword/lightsaber or whichever else with creature handler that is.

No need to start another thread, let's continue where QuorTek left off and get some input for other changes the CH community would like to see. I think Quor's list is solid, and may make CH a viable combat prof on its own, let alone if complemented with rifles, pistols, TKM, etc.

Being able to switch pets in combat sounds outstanding... the ability to use multiple pet specials, bring in subs, and have a much more complex and rewarding combat experience as a whole. These changes will also arguably provide a great incentive to spending hours upon hours in search of those rare pets out there with the right special we want to stack our prey with... a much better reason to do so than simply having a novelty pokemon. If these changes (esp. bringing out 3 CL70 pets) allow CHs to possibly take down upper tier farming mobs, I'm sure we can all see the potential for new markets selling rare/strong pets opening up, not to mention heavily bolstering the existing BE market.

What else?

short list

So I would say get together with the major ch's you know in game figure out what changes would be important that would be within reason that isn't a complete rework of the class and pet design. I would like to see ch get better it's the whole reason I deleted mine but I know they have their hands full doing other things so it isn't a big issue to myself but that may not be the case for everyone .

[Xiphos]

Unholy is correct. A complete rework of any mechanic is a lot less likely to happen, and in a much longer timeline, than some important adjustments here and there. Indeed, a concise and prioritized list is important.

No need to start another thread, let's continue where QuorTek left off and get some input for other changes the CH community would like to see.

Please continue to discuss in this thread, but (once interested parties weigh in) it is helpful to post those suggestions in the proper area. I can't speak for other staff but, personally, I am much more likely to look there for community input regarding desired changes.

[Vikshtrum]

Well I have no clue which changes are and are not within reason, what constitutes a whole rework, etc. I'll wait til those who have a better grasp on what is within reason weighs in.

[Xiphos]

We don't expect you to know all the ins and outs of this game, nor the associated code. We're at varying levels of comfort with it among the staff. However, some things are self-evident. The old "help us help you" applies. Some examples:

-Pets being tougher and doing more damage and with the scale of using 3 CL70ish at time doing as much damage as a rifleman as long as you have a full template and possible master Ranger to max out the class and make it deadly efficient alongside other professions that already is and the ability to hit desired pools of choice which the pets can be bred into.

This is not a concise listing. It covers several aspects and is non-specific in much of the description.

-Pet taunt swap command if one of your pets get the bleeds onto them and switching it to another.

If I'm reading this correctly, this suggestion is for a command that doesn't currently exist and using a mechanic that doesn't exist elsewhere. Thus, we're talking about a lot more code and investment of time.

-Enhanced pet healing and quicker removal of bleeds, wounds.

This is more in line with what a concise suggestion looks like. The addition of a short example may help express your point as well.

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I'm trying to help you; you have to meet me halfway. And even then, it's still just a suggestion. But at least it's one that we can quickly digest and discuss. Thanks.

[jimbo4822]

As far as pet taunting ability, I don't remember live having that ability so that would require a lot of work to put in. What about increasing the "backdoor" stats that determine the aggro the pets generate? As it is now you send in your pet or pets and as soon as we ourselves attack the mob runs straight for us, even if you let the pet beat up on the mob for a minute before the player direct attack.

[Kuse]

As far as pet taunting ability, I don't remember live having that ability so that would require a lot of work to put in. What about increasing the "backdoor" stats that determine the aggro the pets generate? As it is now you send in your pet or pets and as soon as we ourselves attack the mob runs straight for us, even if you let the pet beat up on the mob for a minute before the player direct attack.

I think this is pretty much top priority. I don't think CH was ever designed to be a top combat class, but a support role. Allowing CHs to have some method to use pets as tanks should really be THE priority. All the other things that have been mentioned (multiple CL70 pets, stronger pets, calling pets in combat, etc) should all be secondary because of the utility that pet tanking would allow.

The problem is, I can't give a real concise suggestion outside of "allow pets to be able to tank", because I don't know where the disconnect is... Do pets not generate enough 'threat'? Do they generate 'threat' at all? Or, is this an AI issue where the AI prioritizes player characters over non-player characters and thus pets won't hold aggro? Could be none of the above...

Like Xiphos was saying, the devs have a ton on their plate and can't look into, correct, or implement all these suggestions being thrown around. Does anyone else agree this would be the first priority? Realistically we need to find that one thing we all agree on and we need to make a suggestion in the correct forum and have everyone agree. If we keep throwing out tons of suggestions the devs are more likely to brush them under the rug.

[QuorTek]

Notes are left in italic/bold text.

We don't expect you to know all the ins and outs of this game, nor the associated code. We're at varying levels of comfort with it among the staff. However, some things are self-evident. The old "help us help you" applies. Some examples:

-Pets being tougher and doing more damage and with the scale of using 3 CL70ish at time doing as much damage as a rifleman as long as you have a full template and possible master Ranger to max out the class and make it deadly efficient alongside other professions that already is and the ability to hit desired pools of choice which the pets can be bred into.

This is not a concise listing. It covers several aspects and is non-specific in much of the description.

Well meant for full potential to stack with another class so it does not get to be OP with a combination of medic/combat medic and other DPS classes, we have too many stackers already from other professions

-Pet taunt swap command if one of your pets get the bleeds onto them and switching it to another.

If I'm reading this correctly, this suggestion is for a command that doesn't currently exist and using a mechanic that doesn't exist elsewhere. Thus, we're talking about a lot more code and investment of time.

The NGE remake of CH or spiritual revival of CH had a pet taunt option, though never was developed in the CU... well actually among a few other professions that was never really fully developed at all.

-Enhanced pet healing and quicker removal of bleeds, wounds.

This is more in line with what a concise suggestion looks like. The addition of a short example may help express your point as well.

Again this could be one of the benefits from having master ranger as well, well one will only be able to heal/cure/aid pets of course if so and actually give ranger a better role instead of being a gatherer/tracker only and also to unlock a potential... just like Master BH/Commando

I'm not trying to be antagonistic. I'm trying to help you; you have to meet me halfway. And even then, it's still just a suggestion. But at least it's one that we can quickly digest and discuss. Thanks.

It is very much appreciated that stuff is being looked into or sort of, also maybe have in mind of broken BE made pets which never got a fix back then when the EMU team sort of broke it

In pvp it could be fun as well, but people do not in general like being eaten by pets they seem to prefere blaster/swords/lightsaber smacking their head in

[Neaux]

So in talking with Ch's on this issue a couple of things have come to light , and I will let them post on that. There is one thing I am curious about.

Is this possible , but instead of creature knowledge maybe increases the max level of pet? There are some tidbits of future game versions in here? Could this be one?