Balancing jedi vs. BH after FS.

[skyhunter11]

Many folks been wondering about how the village and force sensitive skills would effect the PvP experience when it goes live. I suspect that you, the developers have a secret game plan for that when it happens.

With 24 points committed to FS, jedi will be weaker. I have a suggestion that may restore the balance after the village is implemented. Forgive me if it's already been suggested.

1. Adjust bh's bonus ability to negate saber block to 10 percent. At xx44 sabers, jedi normally blocks 60 but will be reduced to 50 percent. Master light saber normally blocks 85 but against a mbh it is 75 percent.

2. Increase trap duration back to 10 seconds.

Mbh verses a master light saber while trapped statistcally will block 2 to 3 attacks. Not killer from starting at full health but certainly hurts. Now with two BH's, it gets a little dicey, 4 to 6 attacks combined get through stastically. There is a delay between throwing a trap and the attack, it's more like 8 attacks than 10 if firing at the speed cap. So stastically more on the low end of 2 hits in trapped time frame per bounty hunter.

On a side note, love to see a snare trap that reduces jedi movement. 15 or 20 second snare with a 15 or 20 second cool down.

Narrk

[tnick]

2. Increase trap duration back to 10 seconds.

If you do that, you'd either have to remove LLC's from being able to use Fast Blast, or reduce Fast Blast's accuracy. In ten seconds, with a marginally good LLC you could kill a Jedi (perhaps not a defender) by yourself.

[Xiphos]

We just might have a game plan in place. But we will certainly consider suggestions, keep 'em coming.

As well, we will be testing this particular piece a good bit once it is in play. Tests will be just that. (In the past we've had folks get overly excited over something they saw or heard about on test, which we then decided not to incorporate.)

[skyhunter11]

2. Increase trap duration back to 10 seconds.

If you do that, you'd either have to remove LLC's from being able to use Fast Blast, or reduce Fast Blast's accuracy. In ten seconds, with a marginally good LLC you could kill a Jedi (perhaps not a defender) by yourself.

I don't think you have considered the fact that jedi will be blocking more ranged attacks in my suggestion than what they do currently. This would help all templates.

The other option is leave the bounty hunter saber block bypass modifiers as they are and reduce the accuracy bonuses to fast blast. Adjust the damage down a bit.

If that were to be the road, I would like to see the lightning cannon specials changed to be more effective at short range. Fast blast has been the go to special for bounty hunters.

To summarize, Fast blast could be a full range attack with less accuracy, lesser damage. The short range light lightning cannon specials, higher damage but puts you in range of a jedi attacks.

I would leave adhesive trap timers the way they are in that scenero. Or allow jedi to perform actions while trapped but they are trapped longer.

I just know, the 85 pecent block against a ranged BH is no threat. Even if its two or three bounty hunters. I would not like to see bounty hunters as annoying mosquitos waiting to be swatted after FS changes are implimented.

Narrk.

[bubblegum8965]

Another alternative to the LLC/Fast Blast mayhem is the speed equation change I mentioned in a suggestion from last week.
It would hinder the BH's ability a little bit more than it is currently undergoing. As well as the mention balance to classes.

It would make the FS combat speed boxes more useful as well.

[Deezee32]

Would be nice for fs boxes to be 0 skill points

As awakening now offers 250 skill points to be spent in Jedi , offering many , variable fun builds , with 24 fs , a lot less builds become viable

[RemusStorm]

Not sure if this is even doable with coding, i was thinking a different added effect for each ranged or even melee class, to fastblast.

So for Carbineer add gaurenteed States and extra dmg to spray, LLC obs big added dmg but less accuracy???, added dmg and strong fire DOT to pistols, maybe make spray hit health + mind for rifles.

Make things more interesting, rather than just LLC + fast blast spam

[bubblegum8965]

Giving every class a variation of flash blast won't fix anything.

The issue withat fast blast from what I've gathered is that it causes a LLC to be more accurate than it should be anfree with them being speed capped it causes a no debate on weapon on choice vs Jedi.

The fastest way to change it would be causes the accuracy of the ability to decrease somehow or slow the attacks.

[RemusStorm]

Was just an idea mate, to make thing's more interesting....

Another issue is, to use LLC, you only need MBH, compared to needing MBh AND carbineer or pistols skills. So non-LLC templates are much weaker.

[bubblegum8965]

Apologies Remus didn't mean to come across so strong.

Just frustrating since I truly think my speed proposal fixes a lot of the current class imbalance issues as well as the LLC issue.

The devs have Saud before that they don't want to go nerf ing other buffing any one class as a means to fix balance issues.

While I do think something along your lines would work it would cause the isqueeze of everyone just using their version of fast blast rather than their class abilities. Since that's what BH do nowith even though they have a stellar pistol ability lineup.

Another way to help balance jedi would be to offer some defense vs traps.
Like a defense similar to states but where you don't have a "healthy traps ability."

Just making traps miss half the time would help as well. To make up for the strength of LLC/fast blast.

Another thing that's been stated is why not let jedi use non-combat abilities while trapped?
Potentially incorporating something we've seen in the movies like a saber reflect, where a random shot say 10% while activated are reflected back and damage the shooter. This could be helped by making the Jedi more vulnerable to melee or something since they are so focused on the range attacks.
Make a MeleeBH build more viable with a regular BH build to shoot your target.

[bubblegum8965]

Another thing that could work and might be a favorite for making knight/master jedu more different from regular padawans would be have a 10 or so Jedi Knight abilities.

These abilities would only be available after obtaining jedi knight and could be 8 points or 12. Allowing for one or two boxes depending on cost. These abilities would be strictly from the 24 you put in FS boxes do that you keep your jedi abilities and the change your 24 FS skill points spent to Knight skill points.

Make them like 20 million xp or something difficult to get. Example if applicable abilities could be a force power similar to Warcry (for cone) but makes your target(s) kneel and unable to do anything for a second. Could be a useful mind control power.

Could also have the afford mention resistance to traps in one with some extra state defense.

Could have a CM similar area healing ability for 1.25k HAM.

Could have a 15m knockdown around the Jedi, that works more often than force KD.

Could abroad one that allows the Jedi to do more things that would regularly cause visibility. Maybe maybe name it something like jedi concealment. Where it halves the visibility range and friendly GCW toons/characters don't cause visibility.


I think these could be great if done as to not have too much broken impact but give jedi something to look forward to for knight and master. Allow the Jedi player choices that can aid any current build. Though these could aid more than just PvP, could be more beneficial to PvE or RPing even.

[RemusStorm]

Tbh, screw jedi vs bh.

There is so much more to PvP than balancing jedi vs BH. This game is so much more fun in 20v20 battles etc

The reason World/GCW PvP is so boring/dead is because of the damage reduction from jedi robes. The only profession that can damage jedi is BHs, and BHs dont need/want to be faction aligned. Not to mention BHs suck vs anything but jedi.

[QuorTek]

Tbh, screw jedi vs bh.

There is so much more to PvP than balancing jedi vs BH. This game is so much more fun in 20v20 battles etc

The reason World/GCW PvP is so boring/dead is because of the damage reduction from jedi robes. The only profession that can damage jedi is BHs, and BHs dont need/want to be faction aligned. Not to mention BHs suck vs anything but jedi.

So leave Jedi without faction and let them be target practise for all sound like a good plan meaning a jedi would be flagged yellow to everyone... then pvp comes to using all the other actual professions and not some jedi pwning a bunch of rendered useless against professions to bring pvp back to life?.

[bubblegum8965]

What Remus is getting at is that PVP should be based the idea that jedi don't exist.

Imagine on Awakening that jedi don't exist, then from there what does PvP consist of? I would assume is probably people blowing up bases and other running out to defend them.

PvP shouldn't be a rare occurence that is based around a Jedi vs BH like a majority is. It should be more random like new other games PvP isn't a pre-planned "go pull this mission and PvP," which is what BH terminal missions are.

[davej30]

What Remus is getting at is that PVP should be based the idea that jedi don't exist.

Imagine on Awakening that jedi don't exist, then from there what does PvP consist of? I would assume is probably people blowing up bases and other running out to defend them.

PvP shouldn't be a rare occurence that is based around a Jedi vs BH like a majority is. It should be more random like new other games PvP isn't a pre-planned "go pull this mission and PvP," which is what BH terminal missions are.

If people didnt have the idea of who has the most jedi wins,we wouldnt have this situation.People dont like having the floor mopped with them by a jedi it kinda puts them off PvPing. Its all very well if Awakening PD turn up and apprehend the naughty jedi but by then the damage has already been done and generally its not one jedi its a mob.

[2sproductions]

There are afew builds where a non jedi can stand up to and fight jedi for quite some time. These builds do exist and as for non jedi cant beat jedi except BH well its not entirely true. A CM and Mando turn those tides very quickly. I understand most BH's don't want to take a side in the GCW but you can also treat BH's as theyre meant to. Why not speak to Celt or Anman about hiring BH's to target specific jedi? Or Hire BH's for GCW purposes as long as you provide faction to them. There are more ways to play this game, Everyone just needs to think outside the box and not in it.

[RemusStorm]

jedi Robe 60% damage reduction is a joke. It's ruining PvP. No one wants to PvP when all you do is hit jedi for 100 dmg, and they have 4.5k+ HP.

I understand its required to keep jedi alive in PvE. But to fix one thing, they have ruined another...

Then combine that with 24 extra skill points and reduced Force Cost to most abilities, it's just stupid!

[2sproductions]

jedi Robe 60% damage reduction is a joke. It's ruining PvP. No one wants to PvP when all you do is hit jedi for 100 dmg, and they have 4.5k+ HP.

I understand its required to keep jedi alive in PvE. But to fix one thing, they have ruined another...

Strategy is key

[RemusStorm]

jedi Robe 60% damage reduction is a joke. It's ruining PvP. No one wants to PvP when all you do is hit jedi for 100 dmg, and they have 4.5k+ HP.

I understand its required to keep jedi alive in PvE. But to fix one thing, they have ruined another...

Strategy is key

I'm sorry but having to pay BHs to kill jedi if you want to GCW PvP is a joke, again, game shouldn't be based around bh vs jedi.


It doesn'tsolve anything either, 3 BHs come to kill 1 jedi..... while the other 3-4 jedi are unkillable , healing their group and killing your ranged etc etc

[2sproductions]

jedi Robe 60% damage reduction is a joke. It's ruining PvP. No one wants to PvP when all you do is hit jedi for 100 dmg, and they have 4.5k+ HP.

I understand its required to keep jedi alive in PvE. But to fix one thing, they have ruined another...

Strategy is key

I'm sorry but having to pay BHs to kill jedi if you want to GCW PvP is a joke, again, game shouldn't be based around bh vs jedi.


It doesn'tsolve anything either, 3 BHs come to kill 1 jedi..... while the other 3-4 jedi are unkillable , healing their group and killing your ranged etc etc

Its just the game lol, I personally dont think pvp is broken its just no one wants to at all.Also paying BH's for kills isn't a joke. Its what BH's do and are lol